Documentaries & Other Media

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cyanidebreathmint
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Re: Documentaries & Other Media

Post by cyanidebreathmint »

I haven't seen the brain scans, but I've read about how we are able to "rewire" ourselves. This is one of the bigger arguments for the success of CBT and EMDR therapies. It's really cool that this is possible without medications. And it's healthier and more sustainable. Still a lot of work, though.

I get what you're saying about the pressure/guilt that can arise from knowing we have some control over our brains. I don't think it's really the right way to look at it, but it is the most natural. I dunno, think about it this way. Say you had a stroke and had lost the ability to speak and had to relearn how. You have all of the "stuff" you need to get it done yourself. You have a brain and a will to speak and presumably working speech organs. But nobody expects a guy to wake up in the hospital after a stroke and pull themselves up by their bootstraps and teach themselves to speak again. Much of us have this outdated idea of mental health issues, but it's really not much different from any other biologically based brain disorder. The stroke victim must learn to speak again, with intervention and outside care and direction. They go to therapy to increase the activity in the language centers of their brains and learn the exercises they need to practice to regain mastery of speech slowly over time. (This is to the best of my knowledge from what I've picked up accidentally over time. lol. )

What's different with mental health disorders?

In general, people don't think of those things as biological disorders akin to any other. I think on a deeper level, people might resist this because tying our behaviors and emotions to our biology creates problems with people's notions of free will. We don't like determinism. We like to enjoy a more robust sense of self and sense of agency than we probably really have. But whatever the reason, we don't generally think of it this way and so we think we can will ourselves to recover from this disease as if it is unique. We do have the "stuff" we need, just as the stroke patient does. But we also require intervention sometimes, and direction. What's more damaging about mental health disorders is that it often distorts our will to help ourselves. This isn't the case with other disorders. We don't break a leg and say "fuck it". We treat those things because we know they're treatable. The choice is obvious, and if treatment is available we'll take it. But for mental health disorders our will and hope are part of what's affected. Instead, with these things, we'll say "fuck it" more often than not. There's a chemical for hope. There's a chemical for self-love and having the will to be and do. Or, most likely, there's a chemical soup responsible. And the guilt we feel at being messed up and not being able to fix ourselves, there's a chemical soup for that. So, when our disease eases up and enables us to, we should work on thinking about this stuff logically. Maybe we should even write it out on paper and really look at it critically.

I can say all this and still look in the mirror and call myself a stupid, weak piece of shit for not being able to fix myself. That's the beauty of the beast.

Basically, we're just living in the dark ages and there's a social stigma surrounding mental health disorders because we're still on the frontiers of our understanding of it. And we're predisposed to hate on ourselves about it because it's in our brains to do so.
To anyone out there who's suffered with depression, or anxiety, or addiction, or anything else that weighs heavily on your mind or your heart: I am so, so sorry that you've had to go through so much pain and difficulty in your life. You have my deepest, most heartfelt sympathy and you always will. I would never tell you to "stop feeling sorry for yourself." I would never tell you that you should be over this by now. I won't minimize what you've been through, because I've been through something like it and I have some idea what it feels like.
And this was great. :)
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dare i say it
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Re: Documentaries & Other Media

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cyanidebreathmint wrote:This is one of the bigger arguments for the success of CBT and EMDR therapies. It's really cool that this is possible without medications. Still a lot of work, though.
I agree. (Although, as a sidenote, I would feel bad if anyone reading this ruled out meds as a possible source of help.) It's a crapload of work, but I figure it's one of those things like writing a book, learning a language, or a million other things where someday you're very glad that you put in all the effort.

You make a good point about outside help and direction. I've tried to go it alone many times and I'm almost always more successful when I have support and guidance from a friend and/or a professional. I bought this one self-help book several years ago. It was a pretty good book, but I just couldn't seem to get through it. I had started it at least 3 times, but never got past chapter 4. About a year ago I was talking to a friend of mine on the phone and we decided to make a weekly book study out of it. Each time he called, we had pre-arranged which chapter(s) we would discuss. We finished the book in no time. Another time, a doctor loaned me some instructional videos about a therapy method similar to CBT. I didn't have anyone working with me on it though, and I didn't really have a good way to get any questions answered. That attempt fizzled pretty quickly, but I'm now working on the same treatment modality with a therapist and it's going much better.
What's different with mental health disorders?...What's more damaging about mental health disorders is that it often distorts our will to help ourselves. This isn't the case with other disorders. We don't break a leg and say "fuck it".
You're so right. The nice thing, if there is a nice thing, about minor scrapes, bruises, sprains, strains, headaches, colds, flus, etc. is that they require precisely zero conscious effort to fix. All I really have to do is wait and my body will rid itself of these problems automatically. Not only do mental/emotional problems usually NOT go away on their own, they perpetuate themselves, as you said. If human health were a piece of software, this part of it would be considered a bug! ;)
So, when our disease eases up and enables us to, we should work on thinking about this stuff logically. Maybe we should even write it out on paper and really look at it critically.
This method has been a precious gift for me. It's not easy though. The logical aspect of it is right in my wheel-house, but it's challenging for me on an emotional level for some reason. I do a number of different things that I would call mental health treatment, but CBT writing is still one of my favorites.

Thanks for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response. I'm glad I sifted through all the spam posts to get to yours. I like your new avatar, by the way.
Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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manuel_moe_g
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Re: Documentaries & Other Media

Post by manuel_moe_g »

dare i say it wrote:I don't know how I feel about the suggestion that there are things under my direct control that could repair whatever has gone wrong in my brain. There's definitely a lot of hope there, but also a ton of pressure. Also, outside of this forum, there isn't a whole lot of sympathy for me and what I've gone through. Saying that it's in my hands to overcome my problems almost feels like I'm saying that it's my fault that I feel this way in the first place.
Yeah, there are a bunch of different words for saying the same kind of thing: "it's your fault", "it's your failure", "it's your responsibility", "it's your choice", "it's your opportunity", "it's your freedom"

The way I feel about it now is that I pick the one that is most likely to prompt me into fruitful action, as I see it today. Depression can give you the tendency to pick the one that makes me utterly give up.

Lately I have seen "free will", "willpower", "ability to change", "positive course correction" as small opportunities that arise one or two or three times a week (or two or three times a day, depends) and I make what I can of them. I had a greater tendency to waste them in the past, and because I use my "ability to change" to try to create more opportunities for experiencing the "ability to change", I have more "positive course corrections" now, I make better use of them, and both will increase even more in the future.

It is like that joke Zig Ziglar tells "In your life, how many of you believe you have the power... to completely mess things up and make your life much much worse!" The audience laughs, because everyone knows how they could completely ruin their lives with just a few strategic sabotages. Well, the ability to completely mess up your life is strong indirect evidence of the ability to positively change your life.
dare i say it wrote:I bought this one self-help book several years ago. It was a pretty good book, but I just couldn't seem to get through it. I had started it at least 3 times, but never got past chapter 4.
This has been my experience too, but I don't take it as evidence of something negative about me. I was cleaning out old books, and I found a lot of books were I previously felt bad because I didn't apply myself toward them - but I saw that I had found better ways of getting around those obstacles so applying myself to those particular books would have slowed me up, actually. And also, some books and techniques I am just not ready to apply yet, I still have to puzzle out the correct order of applying them to make good forward progress.
~~~~~~
http://www.reddit.com/r/obsequious_thumbtack -- Obsequious Thumbtack Headdress
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cyanidebreathmint
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Re: Documentaries & Other Media

Post by cyanidebreathmint »

(Although, as a sidenote, I would feel bad if anyone reading this ruled out meds as a possible source of help.)
Yeah, me too. I sorta meant to write that but didn't. I think a tendency for some people who don't get meds and don't get other intervention is to self-medicate with substances known without a doubt to be harmful, and ruling meds out in that instance is illogical (looks at self).
If human health were a piece of software, this part of it would be considered a bug!
lolz
This method has been a precious gift for me. It's not easy though. The logical aspect of it is right in my wheel-house, but it's challenging for me on an emotional level for some reason. I do a number of different things that I would call mental health treatment, but CBT writing is still one of my favorites
I did a bit of it, too. It helped me stop going to the hospital with hypochondria panics. hehe. But then I forgot about it altogether for a while. I really hate this tendency in myself. The writing thing really works, though. Something about seeing the circular thinking on paper helps stop the circling.

Thanks for liking my avatar. :) I like yours, too, actually. The thinker. Very nice. And thanks for reading my dense blocks of text and for your thoughtful responses.
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dare i say it
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Re: Documentaries & Other Media

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cyanidebreathmint wrote:I think a tendency for some people who don't get meds and don't get other intervention is to self-medicate with substances known without a doubt to be harmful.
As a homework assignment between therapy visits awhile ago I listed every single coping mechanism, healthy or otherwise, that I could ever remember having used. I expected to come up with 3 or 4, but in one sitting I actually came up with 25. I was surprised by the wide range of things I was able to put on the list. Many of them were unhealthy, a few were neutral, and about half of them were healthy. I've managed to avoid drugs and alcohol as a way of coping, but there were enough other self-medicating/maladapitve strategies on that list to really open my eyes. It's not like it suddenly turned my life around, but it is very nice to have a clearer picture of what I'm up against and what my choices are. By the way, contributing to this forum is on the list as a very healthy coping skill.

Kim, regarding your avatar, where did you find it? I feel like I should recognize it, but I can be pretty out-of-touch about a lot of things I guess.

Moe, I loved your Zig Ziglar joke! That's making me smile right now. And it's a good point as well--if I can make my life worse, then it stands to reason that I can probably make it better.
Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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cyanidebreathmint
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Re: Documentaries & Other Media

Post by cyanidebreathmint »

i never did that one. yikes. i don't know how i'd feel about that list floating around. hehe. i'd probably be surprised how many i turn up, too. maybe i'll try it

my avatar is from the movie antichrist. i often go on obsessive kind of ruts and right now i'm on sapolsky, neil degrasse tyson and kind of waning off of lars von trier. in antichrist i guess he explores the depths of grief. it gets really insane.

one thing i like to do sometimes when i'm down is watch lars von trier get trapped in the most awkward sentence of all time :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stjM2q3D ... re=related

his famous nazi gaffe

i think this is one of the most hilarious things i've ever seen. i may count as having a strange sense of humor

cheers!
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dare i say it
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Re: Documentaries & Other Media

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cyanidebreathmint wrote:i never did that one. yikes. i don't know how i'd feel about that list floating around. hehe. i'd probably be surprised how many i turn up, too. maybe i'll try it
I'll probably never share the full list with anyone other than my therapist. It is quite personal. By the way, when I was fleshing out my list, I found it helpful to do a little research online into coping mechanisms that other people sometimes use. I found some good stuff on psychcentral and wikipedia.
one thing i like to do sometimes when i'm down is watch lars von trier get trapped in the most awkward sentence of all time.
Oh my god! That was the most awkward thing ever! It's never good when you hear crickets and then you have to explain that something was a joke. Ouch.
Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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cyanidebreathmint
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Re: Documentaries & Other Media

Post by cyanidebreathmint »

lol. right? he couldn't shut up.

i almost wrote up a list and posted it right here. i dunno if that's good or bad. probably bad.
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Re: Documentaries & Other Media

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cyanidebreathmint wrote:i almost wrote up a list and posted it right here. i dunno if that's good or bad. probably bad.
Share as much as you feel comfortable sharing. Maybe it's not such a bad thing. I guess if other people can be open about their problems in this forum and on the podcast, then there has to be a way for me to do that too. Here's the list, from unhealthy to healthier. (I took a couple of things off the list because they were basically just compulsions--not really things I have a choice over in the moment.)

1) Trying to “outthink” a given problem without applying CBT, or writing anything down
2) Trying to avoid any thoughts that make me feel things like shame, guilt, inadequacy, sadness, fear, frustration
3) Avoiding situations that might make me feel nervous, sad, frustrated, etc. This includes most social situations, close relationships, people who express strong emotions, sad music/TV/movies, watching the news, taking on new challenges
4) Rethinking past interactions or rehearsing future conversations
5) Eating when I’m not hungry, often unhealthy foods
6) Obsessively cleaning, organizing, or trying to perfect things
7) Diversions like TV, computer games, or Sudoku
8) Simple chores that are self-limited and entail little or no risk of failure, e.g. trimming my nails or folding laundry
9) Cultivating hobbies & learning about things that interest me
10) Enjoying comedy
11) Exercising
12) Activities that require my full attention, e.g. watching my niece (age 8) and nephew (18 months)
13) Showing kindness to other people
14) Researching ways to understand & treat my mental problems
15) Keeping a regular sleep schedule
16) Improving my diet
17) Talking to someone who is ready to hear about my pain
18) Writing in the MIHH forum
19) Making a list of reasons for me to be proud, joyful, or hopeful
20) Relaxation exercises
21) CBT writing

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's comforting for me to know that I have this list. When something difficult comes up, I at least have a very clear picture of what my options are.
Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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dare i say it
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Re: Documentaries & Other Media

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Just to clarify, I don't use the full list of coping strategies all the time. Obviously I could use a little work on #15, huh? ;)
Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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