Hi

[Moment_of_peace]

The body I'm stored in is male, Caucasian, about to be 57, and grew up and lives in the Northeast. An atheist and skeptic. I don't like labels, so let's just say I'm not hetero. Former heavy drinker, about to be ten years without it, and I never think of it.

I'm retired. It wasn't my idea, but it has worked out very well. No health insurance, as you might expect.

The not unusual history: anxiety, episodic major depressive disorder, self-medication, hitting bottom, and finally sustained dysthymia; Age of onset: 15.

Three years ago or so, I had been on every combination of SSRI, SNRI, and off-label anti-psychotic available, but still stubbornily dysthymic - flat - no zest. My psychiatrist suggested I might want to try ECT at
$1,000 per session. That did not appeal to me, for some reason.

One night, experiencing anxiety, I surfed the net looking for "meditation". (I had tried to meditate a number of times before throughout my life, but gave up... after about 20 seconds... each time.)
That night, though, I found a meditation teacher (available via free MP3 files) with whom I was able to connect. With his guidance, I was able to develop a practice of daily mindfulness meditation based on following the breath that I continued for a year or so. Oh, and I unplugged and put away my television set.

Others have said my personality underwent a radical transformation. My dsythymia vanished. Sometime after, I went to my psychiatrist and closed my case (I had been seeing him for five years.) The crusty old buzzard hugged me (that was the last thing I expected.) I suspect it had never happened to him before.

Now its been two and a half years since I took an anti-depressant. Since nothing else has changed, it seems like mindfulness meditation based on breathing guided by an experienced teacher
has made some permanent change. Even though I don't formally meditate much anymore, I do use the principles I learned on a daily basis. And if I need to sit and get quiet, I know I always have that option.
And my breath is always with me.

I also ascribe the mental change to the study of Buddhism which has given me a solid philosophical and supernatural-entity-free framework for understanding the mind, and by extension, the world. A
sort of confidence I never had before. In my studies, I read that I should consider laughing at the anxiety-generating thoughts ("absurd melodramas") that I used to run from, because they arise out of nowhere, are not under my control, and if I just wait, they will vanish like the clouds they are. (Such a practice would probably not be effective for disabling anxiety, so consider seeing a mental health professional if needed.)

I do not claim to be an expert at doing this, but I am able to do it a little, and that little bit seems to help enormously.

I also exercise quite a bit because it is absolutely exhilarating (I practice "spinning" - you can look it up).

I think Paul is providing a much-needed service on this website and I want to congratulate and thank him for doing so.

I would be delighted to answer any questions on what I have posted here, should anyone be interested.

Best wishes to all of you.

[Jules_rules]

Hi Moment_of_peace,

What resources did you find to begin meditating? You mention mp3's, do you mind sharing? I have to be honest, although I don't watch tv, I've been too scared of unplugging from my other brain candy (audiobooks, podcasts, music) to try meditation. I'm scared of my ugly thoughts that will start in if I disconnect. But I keep hearing about how effective meditation has been for so many people so I can't ignore that message.

Very glad you've found so many things that work for you.

Regards,
Jules

[Moment_of_peace]

Hi Jules_rules,

You don't need to unplug your tv to start meditating, I just mentioned that in passing. It has helped my mind quiet down to unplug the tv. (And I still watch certain shows
on the interwebz, but I don't have to fend off the news or advertising anymore, and I relish that.)

The teacher I connected with is named Gil Fronsdal and you can find introductory and more advanced courses on mindfulness meditation through breathing on the website
audiodharma.org. The whole site is very logically laid out and it should be easy to find the introductory courses (given interactively, a bit at at time, to others trying to learn.) If you have any
difficulty at all, let me know here and I will try to help. Try the following link:

http://audiodharma.org/series/1/talk/1762/

I found Gil to have a very gentle, patient style and a very relaxing, calming voice, but if you can't "connect" with him for some reason, there
are other teachers on the site, or I could find other resources for you elsewhere.

You don't have to have anything to do with Buddhism if you don't want to, either, in order to meditate.

If you are a book-oriented person I could make recommendations in that area, too.

Good luck! Please let me know how you fare!

[weary]

Hi Moment_of_peace. My wife and I have both found our ways into meditation from a variety of directions (books on Buddhism and online Dharma talks, recommendations from therapists, as part of CBT). I'd like to say that it has helped me as much as it has helped you, but it hasn't (yet). I really struggle to do it, and make it stick. But then again, I do feel a difference when I am able to do it consistently. The bigger picture that comes from slowing down and sitting and following your breath - the mindfulness part, the living in the moment right now and not living in the past and the future - that is the key part, I think, and unfortunately the part that I have yet to master. Thanks for sharing your story - it gives me hope that i am on the right track to hear that someone has found some peace doing these things.

[Moment_of_peace]

Hi weary,

That was an excellent post.

I tried to be cautious in my little story about my experience. I don't really have any good supporting evidence (depression scale tests before and after, MRI scans showing an enlarged hippocampus as
a result of meditating, etc.) that it worked wonders on me, so I don't want to imply that it is a sure fix.

It may be that my particular depressive tendencies had run their course and that now that I am, ahem, older, they have waned on their own as the result of unknown physiological processes (I seem to recall having read that sometimes happens). Also, it would not be a total surprise to me if depression or dysthymia were to return in some fashion, given my history, but my reading has given me some ammunition to cope with it, I think.

Still, I don't think there is any harm or out-of-pocket cost to giving mindfulness meditation based on breathing a try. Even ten minutes a day might have some effect.

[bigeekgirl]

What a wonderful transformation!

Much like Jules, I find find the idea of turning off my podcasts and putting away my books utterly terrifying to the point that I do yoga listening to Adam Carolla's podcast. I'm betting I would benefit from a few minutes a day of peaceful meditation.

Nice to meet you, Moment.

[Moment_of_peace]

Hi bigeekgirl,

I completely understand the lure of entertainment because I suffer from it myself. It was only with the aid of a teacher with a very calming voice and gentle approach (see previous post) that I was able to get anywhere in meditation, quiet my mind down a bit, and wean myself somewhat from the constant stimulation of media.

I have a hypothesis that watching a screen or seeing images of any kind, by stimulating the visual cortex (which takes up a significant portion of neuroanatomy), induces a kind of "inflammation" of the brain, so while it may serve to distract us from our thoughts a bit or relieve boredom, there is price to pay for that dubious benefit.

Until relatively recently (the last few centuries), people were seldom exposed to "images". Now, whether on television, the web, or out it the world, we see dozens, hundreds, thousands a day. I suspect this has a negative effect on our peace of mind.

I found it of great utility, once a month, on full moon day (any day will do, of course), to just see how long I can go without any media. No screens or auditory input of any kind. It seems to give me a needed rest. If necessary, relaxing, simple music is acceptable, but I find I like silence now. I don't carry a cell phone. (Don't need one).

I have rebounded a bit from my avoidance of media to the point where I watch a couple of shows and classic films on the internet but I still make certain to avoid all news, commercial television (with its advertising), and movies with violence because I find they disturb my peace of mind, which is what I treasure above everything. When I drive, which is not often, I keep the radio off and concentrate on the driving and I find that is more enjoyable for me now. Many may find the following a bit radical, but I don't read any newspapers or magazines either. I am selective about who I let into my mind.

Also, I try to do one thing at a time and give it my whole concentration. I think "multi-tasking", although perhaps unavoidable at times, is not such a good thing.

In summary, an all-or-nothing approach is not necessary and perhaps not even advisable, but maybe selective reduction (turning off the news, for instance) might be experimented with to see if is of benefit. And if you want to give meditation a shot, if you can find a teacher with whom you feel comfortable, I think that may be of great utility.

And while I am no great shakes as a meditator, when I was doing it regularly, a couple of times I experienced a brief period of seeming to have NO THOUGHTS AT ALL, and I have to say for me, that is... just bliss.

As in everything, don't take my word for it, try it and see it for yourself if it is of benefit to you.

[bigeekgirl]

Moment_of_peace -

Silent time is something I know in my heart would be good for me, but except for showering, I can't bring myself to do it.

While I'm not one to say all television is bad, I am a huge proponent of limiting and choosing wisely. We've been cable free for over two years now and I am much happier. I'd gone though a phase during the end of my marriage when I was self medicating depression with television. It left me numb, but numb was better than dealing with my life. I would watch all kinds of crap just to have something to watch.

Now, I do watch Netflix and keep up with a few shows online, but I don't watch just to watch and only things I care about enough to focus on without also surfing the internet or other multitasking. Podcasts are company when I'm doing hour work or crafting and again they are something I actively want to ingest. With your insight, I'm thinking seriously about imposing some rules on even that. I do want to be more in touch with my own thoughts and feelings, moving onto the stillness and peace beyond thought I've only experienced a few times in my entire life.

It's been a long, long time since I stopped watching news. In fact, I can pinpoint it. I spent a whole day watching coverage of the DC sniper situation. That was around 2003 or 2004, I think. It was around the time I'd gone through cognitive behavioral therapy. It came to me how crazy it was to worry to the point of anxiety about something I couldn't control and that didn't actually impact my life or anyone I knew. Since then, I pretty much glean the big news trends from other people and social media, but leave it alone for the most part. The improvement in my mental state when I keep to away from news is notable.

[SleepyNinja]

I'd consider myself an atheist (or possibly agnostic) as well, with a lot of leanings toward Buddhist philosophical teachings (love Alan Watts).
How do you cope with the idea that existence could end at death? I've been struggling with this and it's made my life excruciating- obsessing about death, panic attacks and a general feeling of fear that at any moment I'll get a call that someone I love has died. I believe that there are things that humans just can't know, like a dog cannot comprehend math, but it seems so horribly sad and futile if this is all there is.

[Moment_of_peace]

I hope you are consulting someone skilled in dealing with panic attacks and generalized fear. If not, please seek out a therapist you can connect with.

Coping with the Idea that Existence Ends at Death: My Personal Experience

I don't think about it that often, so, generally speaking, it doesn't trouble me. (Of course, when one is seriously ill or someone one knows dies, one can hardly refrain from thinking about it). Intellectually speaking, I think death will be just like dreamless sleep, which I don’t mind at all. Perhaps it will be similar to how you felt before you were born. (There will be no sensation but also no awareness, so no one to know there is no sensation.) The process of dying is more problematic. At a gut level though, it is dreadful to contemplate and so I turn to what others have written about it.

Since we can't ever really know if there is an afterlife or not, thinking too much about such things is (perhaps) not the best use of the precious (limited) time we have while "alive", (whatever "being alive" means. The scientific definition of "life" seems to me a bit vague). I have a lot to do and to think about right here and now without considering the future, which is not "real" (because it hasn't happened yet), including trying to practice what the Buddha taught - being generous, living an ethical life, and the other teachings of Buddhist ethical philosophy.

As an antitheist, I have no supreme being on whom to imagine I can rely*. Cosmologists say the Big Bang happened 13.7 billion years ago. The materialistic supposition that "I" didn't exist for 13.7 billion years, all of a sudden arose to exist for 70 or so years, and then will not exist for an eternity is not appealing to my sense of reason. The idea that "I" (whatever that is!) have always existed (and will always exist - unless I take action) in a beginning less / endless universe seems (ever so faintly) more appealing.

I have come to feel that this one human life - which I somehow have (after all, there are trillions - quadrillions? sextillions? of non-human lives going on right now on this planet) has been, and is, so utterly mysterious and wonderful that I am content - and grateful with "just this" - my (one) human existence, painful as it has often been. Of course, I have had a relatively comfortable life (I have never once had to wonder where my next meal was coming from, for example - and why is that, anyway, when so many cannot say the same?) - a very different experience from the majority of humans who have ever existed and now exist.

And I now pose the following question: after having had the luxury of this convenient human life, is desire for yet a lot more - an eternity of bliss - to some extent a product of human greed - one more thing we can "accumulate", and inappropriate after having already had a precious human life?

My Metaphysical hat: Philosophically Speaking: No answers here

The ideas of the afterlife offered by the major theistic religions seem absurd (as in irrational) to me, and can’t conceive of any version of Heaven that would not get boring after only a few million years, let alone endless trillions of years. It seems to me it would be torture, and nothingness would be far better. (Not that I would know there was nothingness.)

In Buddhism there is the concept of rebirth (not reincarnation), which posits the continuation of "something" after death, although what it is, and whether one should be heartened by that idea, I leave to a more extensive discussion. In rebirth, does something continue on from the previous existence? What? What exactly is it that is "here" right now? It's not clear. What does it "mean" to be alive? Heck if I know. Perhaps just being alive is enough.

While one gropes to answer the unanswerable, science (physics, in particular) offers plenty of beautiful and fascinating mystery to ponder. What, really, is the mind? Is the brain the mind? What is an atom.... charge.... mass... a field? (I can describe them to you, but what "are" they?) Is the universe infinite or finite? Is there anything outside our observable universe (the multiverse)? How could our universe begin from something smaller than an atom (which is what our scientists and mathematicians tell us, offering plenty of empirical evidence that this is so)? How is it that we (and all matter) consist of (mostly) of empty space? Why is it that mathematics seems to describe the way the world works so well?

Finally, without death, how could we appreciate being alive? (Without knowing what darkness is, how can we know light?)

The Last Word

"Life on this earth, with all its mystery and beauty and pain, is then to be lived far more intensely: we stumble and get up, we are sad, confident, insecure, feel loneliness and joy and love. There is nothing more; but I want nothing more." - Christopher Hitchens

Footnotes

*(I assert that the sense that there is or is not such a being occurs outside the process of reasoning; In my own case, I didn't "decide" there was no supreme being, and all efforts to "act as if there was one", or to "ask to believe" have not been successful in forming belief in one).

Suggested Reading and other Media
Since you mention you appreciate Alan Watts who comes from the Zen tradition, you might want to consider "The Wheel of Life and Death: A Practical and Spiritual Guide" by Philip Kapleau. He has been trained in the Japanese Zen tradition.

I can also recommend The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche, founder and spiritual director of Rigpa, a network of Buddhist centers and groups around the world.

There is a series of free lectures called simply "Death" by Professor Shelley Kagan of Yale University available on "Itunes U" that I found useful.