YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

I've been wanting to participate in the forum as I have been slowly going through the archive of episodes, having a voice for myself is very difficult though. I've gone to the website many times now and just froze when I actually got to the forum page. This has been a problem my entire life and yet I never thought there was a different way to feel. The first episode that introduced me to the podcast was the Co-Narcissism episode. I don't remember how I found it but it hit a cord in me so strong that I immediately had my partner listen to it. Since then I dabble with an episode here or there and then suddenly spend an entire day listening to nothing else. I believe it was Paul's episode with Tom from Portland where the book The Narcissist Family was mentioned. I read it yesterday and find my mind transfixed on it. I know it is true, I know in combination of some other events is why I hurt so much today. It fills me with such anger towards many people that watched it all happen. People I have heard quoted as saying, "I worry about those kids" in regards to my parents treatment of my siblings and I. Up until now I always thought I just had a genetic predisposition for depression, which may also be true. This has allowed family and friends to distill a strong sense in me that I have always been unstable and damaged. I remember being 5 or 6 and not understanding why I was rejected so frequently. But it is much clearer now because I see I was bullied and threatened and that my methods were simply a form of coping. Previously when reaching out for therapy I have found little true help. Now I am wondering if it is because I was focusing on the events of my early adult years, which were admittedly scarring but not why I suffer. Clearly it has been difficult to distinguish between the cause and effect here. I do believe that my family, who has up until recently had a lot of control over my life, preferred me to believe I was damaged so that there was a plausible excuse for my actions separate from a dysfunctional household with a sprinkle of sexual, emotional and physical abuse.

As an adult I don't trust my gut now. I really am in need of the right therapist. Something mentioned in The Narcissist Family was how children from those families will desire to confront the abuser. Between reading that and listening to Tom's episode I realized how much true rage I feel towards certain family members. I don't trust my ability to hold it in anymore, and it has already come out once or twice inappropriately. The author cautions therapists to not let the abused do such a thing. The reason is because they will never receive the validation needed to heal, and therefore the confrontation will serve more as a painful reminder that the abuser is powerless. This explains the breakdown I have been working through the past year after doing such a thing. My method today consists exclusively of limiting my exposure to my family. Unfortunately I don't have a therapist who has been able to help me work through this. I know Paul says the podcast is not meant to replace therapy, but I have found more resources through it than all of the money I do not have for therapy. I guess this is all to say I am trying really hard to find help. I have tried 3 different therapist within the past 2 and half years. Part of the reason I stop is generally financial as well as feeling it is not working. For other people out there who grew up in a similar environment you will know that I am a people pleaser. This is highly problematic in regards to therapy. In fact in The Narcissist Family the author brings up the frustration many therapists will encounter when working with individuals like myself (believe me that led to some deep self hatred). Because I am people pleasing I am constantly thinking about what the therapist wants me to say, and when I feel uncomfortable I do not feel capable of vocalizing it. I need to find someone who can recognize this is happening rather than believing that my problem is simply due to financial stress and coping with being raped. This again is the problem I am only now seeing where I use these shaming events from my early adult years to mask the childhood abuse. I made the story for the sake of my family so that they could say it is just because I am damaged goods, which they have essentially said. And now I am incapable of even healing the damage.

Currently I spend $50 a session and try to go at least 3 times a month but it is not helping. I have yet to leave a session feeling elated as Paul sometimes says he feels. I so desperately want to find the right person to work with me. I want to feel progress, to feel like I could recover finally, rather than just saying I feel good to make my husband think I'm getting better. This a long winded way of asking for some simple pointers on how to express boundaries to a therapist. How to check in with yourself to know if it is a good fit or not. There are so many methods out there and so far my method of finding someone with the most credentials, work experience and fits within my budget, has failed. I run my own very modest business and my husband and I are always just getting by. It has been difficult to invest the time to find new therapy, and as mentioned before I have done it three times now. When I do feel the courage and time I want to find a support group as well as a new therapist. But if you can imagine how difficult writing this post is, and how I can't even be honest with a therapist, I worry that a support group may be beyond my current grasp. Maybe participating in the forum will be the first minuscule step for now.

So if you have managed to read all of this by now then thank you, feeling heard is cherished moment for me.
-Hermitcat

I am new to this forum too.

That Co-Narcissism episode really hit home for me too.

I have just realized in the last few years that much of my thinking and my so-called principles that I had in place for myself weren't my own thinking at all, they were the result of my mother's f'd up logic in which she has, due to her own issues of sexual abuse and other things she has never dealt with.

If you read my introduction you can get a glimpse of my childhood, but basically we lived in poverty. My mother didn't "believe" it was important to live in a nice home or keep the crappy house clean or have anything nice. "Those things don't matter", she'd say. But in reality I think her lack of cleaning and nuturing was her re-acting or acting out because of her own f'd up relationship with her mother and also such low self esteem. She also didn't feel it was necessary to get my brother help when he witnessed one of our neighbors murder his father this totally f'd my brother up, but my mother seemed to think she knew the best way to handle everything and now even though she wears the same purple shirt every day, hardly showers, and lets her dogs piss everywhere, she still thinks SHE has her shit together and everyone else has their priorities wrong... And THIS is the person I LISTENED TO ALL MY LIFE!

I guess I got a little off track there, but my point is that the stuff my mother has said to me all my life is still in my head, she's said things like "Life's Not Fair" anytime I would bring up feelings having to do with others having it better and maybe I'd want that kind of life for myself or she'd say things like celebrating the holiday's don't matter, or that's not what it's all about. She stopped cooking for holidays and celebrating them all together at one point. All of these things she said and did, for the longest time I mimicked as adult. I didn't get into the holidays, I wouldn't go to the doctor or the dentist for the longest time because my mom always acted like things such as healthcare and nice teeth were things other people had, but not us... I thought, well THIS is how I was raised and because I wasn't on drugs or in jail, Mom did a good job.... but the reality is, I was pretty much emotionally as well as physically neglected and sexually molested. I left home at 15 and was pregnant by 17, and it turns out I'm pretty f'd up.

I gave my mother way too much credit for way too long and now that I have realized that she has such a distorted sense of reality, well it really has taken it's toll.
The mind f**k that my mother has left me to deal with is so overwhelming and I totally know what you mean when you say you don't trust your gut.

My mother won't address any of my issues, yeah, I made the mistake of confronting my abuser and it did just end up as additional trauma... I hadn't listened to the pod cast before doing so, big mistake. Not only did my mother NOT comfort me, she trashed me and criticized my own parenting toward my daughter, it was just awful.

Every day is a struggle for me. It's like before I open my mouth I have to think "Is this me talking, or my mother?" I second guess myself at every turn. Oh it's just horrible and I hate it. It's like I don't know WHO I am... and on top of that, in the mean time, just when I think I'm doing something that I want and think I need, or handle something in a way I think I should, my mother is standing on the side lines trashing me.

I haven't spoken with my mother since the last time I tried to reach out to her for comfort only to have trash me. I told her that I guess I was on my on, like I have been since I was a kid. I know it hurt her, but it didn't hurt her enough to take action or get help, instead she just keeps saying nasty stuff about me to my sister and my daughter who she sees nearly every day at the fast food place where my daughter works and where she hangs out every day drinking up coffee and spewing her twisted narcissistic opinions of everyone like the crazy person she is.

In the mean time, I've been doing the whole re-parenting thing. They talked a lot about it on episode 64 with Dr. Jessica Zucker. I found this so helpful. I now talk to my "inner child" in order to give her the love and compassion I missed out on and it has helped to validate my feelings. I actually have to ask her/myself what do you want? How would you like this? etc... then, I am able to more easily make decisions that I know are about what is truly important to me.

So anyway, I can feel you and your pain and would love to talk about anything with you.. because I know I could use a shoulder too.

When I first posted this the other week I immediately regretted it. I convinced myself someone I know would recognize me and the truth would come spilling out. Or that I may have come across as needy and selfish. To hear your words come so freely feels good. The emotional abuse you have been through sounds very difficult, and I feel for you and your daughter. For myself everything has been wrapped up so tight that I had up until recently convinced myself that nothing was wrong. I hope releasing these thoughts offers some of the validation you deserve. I sometimes wonder how I managed to get passed those early points in my life. I never thought I would live this long... Though my parents were unavailable I did have an Aunt who stood up for me. She saw how I was treated, even by her own daughter, and loved me. I can't remember which episode it was, maybe the one you mentioned with Dr. Jessica Zucker. Whichever one it was it said that children that had absent and abusive parents were sometimes able to escape those trappings by having another family member step in and act as a surrogate parent. This is something that my current therapist has actually help me with. She noticed a pattern with my close friends, they all had loving parents. Granted the "friends" were generally not very kind to me, but I would always put up with it. If it were not for a friend's father I would not be able to have healthy relationships with men. In fact I still am cautious around adult men to this day, though I'm decent at hiding it. I bring this up because I wonder if you have someone like this in your life. A surrogate parent, so to speak. So much of the healing process has been to receive validation from people like that in my life. I do think that the re-parenting can help. For myself it is very hard to look at pictures from my childhood though, sometimes it is too much. But having older, wiser, loving mentors/role models there offering perspective has helped more than I could imagine. To be honest I'm not great at finding people like that, but I have found 2 so far in my life. One has passed away and the other lives on the other side of the world. But when the negative words my mother would say to me begin to get loud I think about those 2 people and how they think of me. I try to refocus on that. Granted when I was driving home from work today I was punching my fist in the air imagining it was my father.... This is just to say that you're right. Your mother was not there for you, she hurt you. And maybe it was because of other things, that still doesn't excuse it. Something from Tom from Portland's episode that really helped me was what his father said to him in response to his sister raping him. "She was just a child" to which Tom responded, "so was I."

There is one last thought I would like to add. I feel so deeply for you about your confrontation. I know how bad that can feel. But at least you told her what you had been keeping inside for so long. I do believe that we hold those things not just in our mind but our body as well. When you think back on that confrontation and the pain it caused maybe also think about what you were finally able to release. The scariest part about confrontation is the pain that has to be felt before the healing begins. I like the analogy of a bone healing wrong and needing it to be re-broken for it to heal properly again.

Hope to share more thoughts with you.
-Hermitcat

Hi Hermitcat,

I can really resonate with a lot of your story you have shared. Finding a therapist while not having a lot of money, trying to figure out the cause and effect of events in my life, sexual abuse, and all in the context of a narcissistic family. It really is awful. It takes a lot of courage to simply post like this in a forum. I know this might not mean a lot, but I did want to offer some encouragement. Simply seeing some of the issues in yourself, having that awareness and seeking out help, whether through books, therapy, forums, etc. already shows you are a good soul. It is terrifying to look inward sometimes, so the mere fact that you are says a lot about you. Most people don't even get to that point.
I am sorry to hear how hard it has been to find a therapist. That is never a fun process. How do you find some one you can bare your soul too like that without knowing them? I haven't find the right formula for that yet either. And when going puts you in financial stress, ugh.
I know the book you mentioned cautioned against confronting family members, which I totally understand for the reason the author mentioned. You will not get anything validating back. If you go into it looking for something from them, you won't find it. However, I know in my experience, I always started by writing a letter. I don't know if you are a journal person or not, but simply writing an unedited letter that they would never see helped me see my thoughts and feelings more clearly. Letting my "little 5 year old" self say what he wanted to shed a lot of light for me. Eventually, that letter did turn into a confrontation of sorts, but that was years later. I wrote a lot of letters in that process. Hell, I am still in that process and I am "post parents." I know writing stuff out might not work for everyone, but it did help me get to know myself a little better. I also had some close friends I could share all of this with. My therapist helped a lot, but I had more support than just him.
I hope you can find your voice. From simply sharing this much and taking that kind of step to find it, your voice is pretty strong.

Thank you for your thoughts Tom. I am a journal person, but more recently it has been difficult to write. Ironically the last thing I wrote was a letter to my father that I did not intend to send. And amusingly it was after listening to your episode Your approach certainly inspired me, but after I wrote my thoughts I tried to imagine mailing it. That thought felt so impossible to me, inconceivable in my lifetime. I have years of unsent letters I keep, I think mostly to validate myself. But also because I never had the courage to send them. Often times they were just friendly letters where I convinced myself the person would think I was needy and annoying for bothering them, and so I still have them, postage and all. After my last move I went through some of them. I even found invitations I made for a party I was planning when I was 7 that I never sent. I grew up with a strong imagination. It contributed to my inaccurate vision of what was wrong. I would tell my peers lies about my family life. Loving things we would do together, making a special breakfast for my parents, fun summer road trips, or even just sweet things I would pretend they could say. They all wanted to believe it so readily and so I made it for them, a fake story, based upon what I saw in their lives. I was trapped though, and all I was doing was making it worse. I think I thought if I killed the abused part of myself there would only be the good. You know... the fake part that was clearly preferred When I actually did try to kill myself as a child no one noticed. I tried to OD on pills and still went to class, and when I started to convulse the teacher told me to just lie down in the sick room. There were the poorly concealed rope burns on my neck. I would write stories about taking my father's handgun and shooting myself, and I would read this in class... I was begging for someone to help but no one did. I think that is part of why it is so hard to trust people now, no one ever stood up for me, and how could they have not known.

I do believe you are right about continuing to write. It does help me process, it just hurts every step of the way. And so easily it can dump me in the dregs of depression. That is what stops me to be honest. I can't afford to have another breakdown, and I don't understand why I can't just stop the crying sometimes so i can just make money like everyone else on the planet. It is so hard to not feel like I'm failing when I skip a therapy session to pay a bill. And then I think about therapy and how I feel no better since beginning the process. I think about how I could keep that money and do more for myself by meditating and running EVERY day... but I won't because I'm broken. A friend recommended to me that if I did not like a therapist I should just find another that I do feel comfortable around. But I'm never comfortable around anyone except for maybe my husband. It takes me a very long time to trust.

I was so driven when I lived with my parents, everything was about escaping. I think about how hard I worked back then saving every penny. And now that I am free all motivation is gone. It feels like there is no hope. Every time the depression hits it is another reminder that I will never break free. I may not live in their house anymore, I may not have to clean their messes, but I'm still branded by them. I'm still a push over, my last name is still attributed to them, and I still meet people that find out who I am and wish that my parents were theirs. The lie is everywhere and I'm sick of contributing to it.

Writing this on the forum is the most honest I have ever been, and even though it is anonymous I'm still terrified. I guess all I can say at this point is thank you. Thank you for listening, thank you for encouraging me to get this out. It is no small thing, it means a lot to me. As per usual I will regret posting this, but you have left me with slightly more confidence that what I'm doing is right, and it will help eventually. You will be the little voice in my head to write it down when it starts getting dark, or write on the forum. And I will try to interpret my rant as strength, even though it is very hard to believe after reading this.

And once more for good measure, thank you.
-Hermitcat

First, thank you for sharing this. Even though it is on an anonymous forum, it is still kind of sacred ground. This kind of pain is never easy to share, even when it doesn't come with all the layers that your story does. It is not only courageous and brave, but also it is compassionate to yourself. Being kind to ourselves can be so hard when we have received messages from people that matter that say we don't matter, we are damaged goods, or what we are feeling isn't real. I really hope you can continue to find healing and yourself.
I am sorry you have to deal with so many horrible circumstances and people. The school nurse telling you to lay down, ugh, fuck them. A few things you said really stood out to me. Like "I grew up with a strong imagination. It contributed to my inaccurate vision of what was wrong." I totally had the same kind of imagination. I still some times catching myself trying to paint a brighter picture than what it is accurate about my family. I know that as a kiddo, it was all my brain could do to help keep me safe. There was no way I could have handled really understanding what was going on. It wasn't until I was older that I could really work through it. Unfortunately, some of those habits that helped me as a kiddo are still around as an adult.
The financial piece of therapy can be so hard to overcome. How do you choose between the electric bill and therapy? I know Paul has talked a lot about searching for "low fee therapy" on google and adding your hometown. Not sure how successful that is though.
When you say, "The lie is everywhere and I'm sick of contributing to it." I was wondering what would happen if you brought it out in the open? Not suggesting you should, but just asking what you fear would happen?

So I made the decision this week to stop seeing my current therapist, I know... I know.... After a very unsuccessful session that knocked me out for the rest of the week I started doing some new research. Today I'm in the fragile place where I know I could fallback down at any moment. I found an article online about finding the right type of therapy and as I read it I realized that the therapist i'm seeing is doing more harm than good. I have never been diagnosed though I have a feeling I suffer from OCD, anxiety, PTSD and major depression. I guess this is all part of the process and I just happen to be in the middle of it.

Where I'm at even the thought of confronting any family member is too triggering for me. I tried to write this the other day and even just the vague thought was too upsetting. This is the part of me that is aware I need help, I need a psychologist that could actually diagnose me. I probably could use with some CBT, and I'm no longer apposed to medication. I guess what it is for me is that I don't know about all these different forms of therapy, listening to the podcast has been very informative in that regard. And so as I have been trying to seek help I have encountered a lot of therapists that are not the right fit. I wish there was a better way to navigate all of this. Having to go visit one after the other exposing so much that can leave me debilitated just feels more damaging than it should be. And then over time to find out that their method is not going to work for me can be so defeating. I'm not giving up I'm just frustrated. I'm not in a place where I can control what triggers me. And when it happens I just have to find the smallest place in my home to crawl inside until I wear myself out. I'd like to think I'm not the only one that experiences this. But what is so hard is to hear other people who feel it is a question of controlling your thoughts. It is not something I have control over at this point. This is why I see it as a problem, this is why I want help. I just haven't found the help yet. In my area low-fee has left me with a lot of inexperienced therapists. I would rather go into credit card debt at this point than see another quack. And so that is what I'm looking for now, a PhD.

I'm sorry this sounds more like venting than a response, I'm just having a hard time right now. Today I feel a little more sane though. Until I find a new therapist I'm not sure I should think at all about some of this stuff. It is good to reach out though. I know I don't know you but your story is very easy to relate to for me. And it has allowed me to open up more than I expected I could. I'll keep working at it and maybe get out of the middle of all this someday.

-Hermitcat

I am so sorry your therapist didn't work out. I think it makes a lot of sense to hate going over and over, exposing yourself over and over, and never getting reprieve or healing. It probably does do more damage than help. Even admitting it and trying again and looking for a better way to find a therapist shows a lot of resolve. I also am a big advocate of protecting yourself in therapy, like not sharing intimate details about certain painful experiences until the relationship is more established. Out of curiosity, do you currently have health insurance?
I really hope you can find a good therapist when the time is right. Not sure where you are, but if you are in the Portland area, I know some good ones. It can be such a hard process.
Sometimes the podcast is one of the best ways I can better myself. Just listening to other stories, whether relevant to mine or not can be really humanizing. I hope your soul gets some rest soon, living can be exhausting.

Hermitcat,

Don't feel bad about dumping your therapist. If it wasn't working it wasn't working. I have seen several, given them each a few months, and then stopped. If I'm being honest I knew from the first session or two they weren't for me. Not that I'm encouraging people to be quitters but therapy is very tricky, and if you don't feel comfortable to understood it just won't work. Get back on the horse and try again. Do you have people in your life you can trust for a recommendation, whether it be to a therapist or other MHP? If you needed someone to fix your roof you'd ask around...how much more important is your life than a roof?