Thanks, marizipan. And it sucks you've had experiences like that. I grew up not having a lot of friends so I get very confused when anybody shows interest in me, but generally I can tell if they're cool and just want to be friends--but almost always, if it's a guy and a long conversation, nowadays I bring up relationships to confirm they aren't just hitting on me. Recently I made a good connection with someone based on that move I made, and he started talking about his problems with relationships and also about sexuality, so it ended up being a cool conversation--not uncomfortable, because he wasn't a jackass. Even if he IS interested in me, he realized like... we're strangers who literally just met.
When I get objectified, it makes me feel like I'm not worthy friendship: AND that relationships in and of themselves aren't extremely strong bonds of friendship that go the extra step of physical love and affection and sex. Like my words are worth nothing unless it's to coerce me into sex, or they're all trivial... things to be used against me when you want to hit on me. This recent creep I ran into JUST asked questions about me, and when I asked questions about him, they were all very short--like he assumed women just like to talk about themselves. I felt terrible when he asked me for my phone number and I gave him my real one because I didn't know how to fake a number on the spot and for him to suddenly stop being "friendly" and that he'd call me a bitch. Luckily I had the balls to tell my class that I had been waiting to get into about this, and everyone agreed he was a creepy (especially since I said I was into figure drawing, and he asked me if I'd draw him, and I was like "not in the nude" and he was like "why not?"--seriously, wtf) and gave me advice on what to do if he called or texted. Ultimately I faked that he had the wrong number... and of course I felt bad, but I didn't want to give out my number in the first place! You wouldn't believe how he was cornering me--whenever I took a step back, he took a step forward. Whenever someone passed by, he took a step back. Eventually I was pretty much up against a wall in a forced conversation. Also he asked in the text "Are you into figure drawing?" WTF THAT WAS ALL WE TALKED ABOUT CUZ HE WOULDN'T STOP ASKING ABOUT ME. Then, "I hear it's really big right now." ... NO, IT'S NOT, IT'S USING TECHNIQUES FROM THE FUCKING RENAISSANCE--NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT FIGURE DRAWING UNLESS YOU'REIN THE ART COMMUNITY, WHICH HE WASN'T! He also started the whole thing by asking a weird question--"Are you in the art department?" If you're a REAL student in school, you'd know the "art department" is a series of buildings and staff... you'd not assume I was staff, so the proper question is, "Are you taking art classes?" which in hindsight made me think he was one of those creeps taht just cruises college campuses for girls.
I feel bad about lying but I would have had to lie about what my real number was anyway, or face more manipulation or maybe a verbal assault if I had simply said "no." Like he could've been all, "Why?" or done whatever he could to get it or call me a bitch. Anyway, now I have a plan in action to just give out my old home phone number that I'd memorized when I was a kid.
Or just say "no" when I'm actually surrounded by people and not alone and cornered in a hallway.
But still, I have a lot of guy friends... and MOST of them have not hit on me, and the rest of them have mostly been cool when I turn them down--again, I've asked a lot of them about their interest in me and get the confirmation like "You haven't been sending me those vibes" (BEST ANSWER EVER--and he's a real sweet, awesome person and we get along great as friends) or "you're attractive but..." with some qualifier, like "I wouldn't if you weren't interested" or "I don't feel like I could" (like they were too ugly--which, you know, in his case he wasn't, but I knew he'd feel okay since he'd already had tons of girlfriends before, no matter how he was feeling at that time--he'd already had way more sex and relationships than I'd ever had, so seriously).
Having a lot of guy friends is sort of a part of why I question my gender--like why is it harder for me to connect to women? I do have female friends but my closest friendships are mostly with guys... and it's almost complicated that way, especially since one of them is my ex. (Which I should be thankful for but sometimes I do wonder if I put him upon too much or if his old feelings ever come back and make him feel like he HAS to do something for me--like it's painful for him to bring up our old relationship or old stuff since it was very one-sided on his part.) And most of the lady friends I have are either just good acquaintances practically, or my best friend, who is pretty gender-queer herself without identifying as such--she'd probably call herself more of a tomboy. Like I'm actually girlier than she is, really. So it makes me question a lot of things... what is being female--traits that I don't also see in male friends? I'm honestly not sure. I know I have stereotypical female traits but then again sometimes I really, really don't, so I don't know what the answer is. Also the preferred pronoun thing is only happening here on this forum since the forum asked--I'm too afraid to do it on FB, because my family is on there. It has more to do with a psychological hang-up you get from social anxiety; I hate hearing "she" when I hear people in conversation and I always think it's about me even though that's just the bruised ego talking, like "She's acting so weird" or "She's the one that did x thing." They is more comfortable in that I don't have to assume it's about me... though admittedly I've been feeling much better since taking anti-anxiety drugs and don't assume the whole room is watching me or talking about me. Weird that social anxiety is kind of a contradiction--you feel worthless to talk to but you think you're so weird that everyone is judging you, even though 99% of the time people mind their own fucking business and don't talk about strangers when they're in earshot.
Annnnyway.
When you're a heterosexual cisgender male and you make a friend with a guy... just take that same approach to a woman you're attracted to (talking and asking about interests, back and forth conversation type things--genuinely wanting to know WHO you are, like in the Muse lyrics, "I want to know your beauty's not just a mask"--that inner beauty we want to find in anyone we make friends with) and then you don't have to feel weird about having secondary feelings of attraction towards them, cuz honestly if they feel the same way, there are social cues to that. Like in their own way they'll let you know, and it's NOT just being nice--I think for myself I would generally go in for more physical (safe-touching) to show I was interested, if I wasn't such a basket case right now and really not interested in a relationship, casual or for real one.
I've definitely flirted with a guy before and it's unfortunate it didn't go anywhere, but it was very natural and easy--partially cuz we were kids in a punk rock community, so our first flirting was like stepping on each other's feet lightly and bumping up against each other hard before a band played, like a little mosh pit (you see it in friends a lot if you go to all ages shows) then cuddling once in a while--the next time he saw me, he picked me up and carried me with one arm, which I LOVED cuz it was spontaneous and affectionate. I feel weird that I didn't let him kiss me at the end of the first night we met, but I guess I didn't feel comfortable enough to yet--I don't remember my mindset much when I was 16-17, though.
The point is flirting is always back and forth and very natural--you don't have to be scared to do x thing cuz she's watching you as much as you are her, so the eye contact and her sign of "go ahead" will be obvious: for instance, do I sit next to her? She'll pat the place next to her, make eye contact and smile, already seeing your indecision--do I put my arm around her? Sit as close as possible to her and see if she doesn't scoot away because if she doesn't, she'll probably lean into your shoulder a bit, which means TOTALLY put your arm around her!!! She'll give a signal, or do something else to flirt with you before you even think of it. It's usually NOT even conscious decisions, it's this organic, natural thing that will come up between two people meeting who are attracted to each other.
Personally I think physical flirting (safe-touching, let's call it--no groping unless it's totally consensual, again) gets the message across a lot sooner and can still lead to deeper conversations (and I say go for the real conversations first before verbal flirting, personally--or see how much you can keep up between the two so you guys can get actual answers out of each other and not just tease each other/compliment each other the whole time), so you don't have to really deal with silly verbal flirting until you both are at the point of actually knowing each other, where the verbal flirting is personal and not "lol wow you have a big purse what do you carry in that thing...." or something else weird or awkward like that.
Hope I made sense and also I'll qualify this by saying it'll be a case-by-case--everyone is different. I just feel like verbal flirting gets in the way if you want to make a genuine connection and can also break the deal and make you look like an asshole or a creep if you say the wrong thing, and that counts if you're female or male, really.
I personally wish I could be more open when I want to flirt with someone, but I'm still in most GUY'S cases where I feel like I'm in limbo and have no idea what to do--I get very trapped in how much I like this person before I even know them and how much I want them to like me. I come up with plans that fall flat on its face or say stupid spur of the moment things that make me feel like a jackass and don't go for the physical safe-touch flirting because I'm so afraid of rejection... so I'm just waiting for that moment when it's spontaneous, organic, natural, consensual flirting, rather than them acting normally while my feet shift uncomfortably and I have no idea how to even hold a normal conversation with them because I'm obsessing over whether or not they like me.
Sorry for the mini-novel there.
And for obvious confusing sentences that I can't edit properly right now cuz I'm feeling so weird/exhausted for probably the whole duration of the holiday season.
