YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

I'll start this off--listened to it last night and I enjoyed it very much. There were a couple of parts where Paul and Oliver just dissolved into laughter and I enjoyed that--I laughed out loud too.

I get where Oliver is coming from as far as trying to "be there" for his father--I felt the same way about my mom (but I was lucky in that dementia made my mother into a very pleasant and happy child-like person). When people would ask why I visited so often, I would tell them I was okay with how she was at whatever moment I was visiting (sometimes very agitated and crying, sometimes very cuddly and cute) and I would know, when all was said and done, that I did what I thought was right for myself. My visiting might have been sporadic if she was abusive toward me but like I said I was lucky.

I hope Oliver can make a repeat visit in 6 months or so to update where he is with the things he discussed in the podcast. I really enjoyed this one!

I enjoyed this episode--and I really felt for Oliver when it came to unrequited love.

Buuut I do have something to say to Paul or Oliver or both of them:

Paul said it was okay to ask a woman out if you met her at a coffee shop.

He left out that this is ONLY OKAY if the woman is showing signs that she is interested in you. Randomly talking to a woman and not noticing or following social expressions that that woman feels uncomfortable, bothered, put-upon, etc.--it's SO NOT OKAY to hit on her.

The same REALLY applies to the woman that Oliver is obsessing over in group therapy; I'm so glad Paul pointed out her comfort level over Oliver's own comfort.

Women and female-bodied people and female identifying people: we want to be treated as human.

Crazy, I know.

In this new age, most women want to be friends before we make that next step. It confuses men, I know, but that's because sex is less of a victory for some of us and more of a DANGER ZONE where we could be attacked and vulnerable. (Mind you some women are sexually free enough to feel comfortable but I don't know what that's like or what they go through themselves.) So we want to trust basically EVERYONE before we really make a connection--it makes sense, right?

It's better for Oliver to just try and broach a conversation with this woman, notice her expressions (if she is uncomfortable or not) and then based on that VERY FIRST ENCOUNTER, let it be. Let her approach you, don't try to approach her unless she seemed friendly.

I'm saying this having to have developed a knowledge of what is okay and what is not okay, building boundaries, etc. I have a complex as a female-bodied person where it's like... I have to be nice, or you're going to call me a bitch. Stupid fear but again, A LOT of female-bodied people are very afraid of being attacked, physically or verbally, because of how we're conditioned.

Compare being attacked to being rejected... seriously.

Just saying. I really liked the podcast but I felt that needed to be said.

I'll also note: as a female-bodied person who has been put in very uncomfortable situations by people who wanted to get with me--I'm always trying to assess "Is this person being nice or are they hitting on me? Are they hitting on me genuinely or do they just want to get laid???" This is what makes it hard to say "no"--we're trying to asses men the same way you're trying to assess us, except we're pretty much on the level of "Is this guy going to fucking hurt me, stalk me, rape me, etc?"

I've had some bad experiences just because I was caught, confused, and had no idea how to respond. So you can't always expect us to say "no," I'm afraid. You should learn empathy and really take a walk in our shoes where you're caught in a corner and don't know what to say because you can't tell someone's intentions. Your intentions should always be "I want to connect" rather than "I want to fuck/own/marry/date/etc you" 'cause in those first encounters, WE DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER.

Just more thought. It's something that happened to me recently, a weird guy just cornering me... and me just not even knowing how to respond until I talked to other people.

It's not to shame men for their feelings or even mistakes they've made; you just need to realize that the world women/female-bodied people live in can be very scary.

I'm going to second what Sherlock says, and go farther to point out that Oliver said he felt like the woman in his support group was withholding from him by not making eye contact.That is a scary amount of entitlement on his part. Support groups aren't pick-up joints. End of story.

"female-bodied people" ???????

What the heck is a female bodied person? Are we going to be so politically correct now that we have come to this level of specificity in our language? Look, I try really, really hard to be kind and understanding to people, but this level of language control is NOT okay. People need to be able to communicate with one another without the language changing so often that it becomes a political minefield to communicate. The LGBT community has a language of its own that tries to please every possible gender difference, but in the end it just serves to alienate everyone outside of that community.

Sherlock: Just about everything you say shows that you're a complete and total control freak. You have to control the language, how men approach you, what they say to you and damn near everything else outside of your locus of control. Paul is the most inoffensive, sensitive male on the planet and yet you still find fault with him for not being specific enough about how he would ask someone out. It just boggles the mind.

I know how to respond to Jimmy's post personally, directed right at him, but it's not pretty. So let me just defend myself:

Please show me any part where I am attacking Paul, or asking people to control their language. I ask people to consider or analyze their actions. That's all.

I love Paul, but I do not put him up on a pedestal. He's open, listening, and wants to learn and grow: but he admits himself that he's a recovering misogynist. I don't begrudge him for this at all because he is VERY aware of it to the point of pain that I sympathize with. I made my post so people know at least one side of how women feel about complex, grey issues like this. He's always asking for feedback. I was giving him feedback, and even praised him for what he did right--because a LOT of what he said was right. That doesn't mean EVERYTHING he said was right.

I say "female-bodied people" because this is in my language: I don't assume trans people don't exist, and I don't assume other-gendered people don't exist, and that they aren't reading these forums. If you are cisgendered and heterosexual you have NO IDEA how often LGBTQ people are excluded from conversations--I can only compare it to how often mental illness is excluded from conversations. We are ignored if it has nothing to do with our sexuality or gender. I don't want to ignore people who actually exist and have any possibility of reading my post.

Think whatever you want about me, but I thought this forum was a safe place. Where we wouldn't be insulted or degraded for speaking our minds.

I guess some users feel differently and feel the need to directly insult a member of the forum in lieu of merely venting generally or asking questions or going elsewhere to find answers themselves.

The "control freak" part would be hilarious if I wasn't in such a sour fucking mood right now. Nowhere do I tell people to speak as I speak. I am merely cautioning people based on MY OWN experiences, because all I want is to be treated as human and tell you how it feels to be dehumanized, intimidated, and ironically enough, controlled.

Jimmy's post is very toxic in my opinion but I am not going to further the toxicity by firing back with a few of my own insults. Sorry if I did that without realizing it, but seriously. We shouldn't be attacking each other like this anywhere on this forum, and I find nothing Jimmy just said constructive--it felt exclusively reductive and insulting.

Oh Jimmy, hey, throw this one at ya: I fucking said this.

It's not to shame men for their feelings or even mistakes they've made; you just need to realize that the world women/female-bodied people live in can be very scary.

I mean Jeez Thelma and Louise how much do I have to qualify my fucking statements, here?

Forum Peeps

Please be aware that the tone in some of your posts have been very aggressive and counterproductive to the vibe we're trying to have in the forum. I'm not saying we can't disagree with each other, but we need to do it in a way that has some love in it. This forum needs to stay safe for people to be vulnerable.

I have had to ban people in the past and if I have to do it again I will because the safety of this forum is really important to it flourishing.

Paul

Jimmy,

Female-bodied is not overly PC. It is an important description for how many trans people feel. Having a female body yet feeling like a male is very perfectly described by "female-bodied". The last thing people in the trans community need is more judgement.

I appreciate you saying nice things about me but I will not accept comments in the forum that denigrate or minimize other people's experiences or feelings. This is a place for us to find and celebrate similarities not to criticize differences.

Paul

Sherlock,
I think you made some great points. I had never considered some of the things that go through a female or female-bodied person's mind when a man is showing interest in them. I think a lot of men take our physical safety for granted and forget there might be another experience.

Paul