Episode 174: Andrea Schaefer

[imnotcrzee]

full disclosure upfront. I am Andrea, the guest from this episode. I just listened to it and I am proud of the result. I also noticed I have a post nasal drip problem and I smack my lips a bit too often. I did just want to kick this thread off and tell you I am so open to connect with anyone who relates or needs a sounding board. Of course those who did not like it can blame Paul, ha no he is amazing. You can GFY.. Have a pleasant day. Thank you for airing my interview Paul.

[Omniel]

Andrea, I just listened to the podcast last night and - you are an amazing person for going through what you have gone through. I thought "wow, she has so much insight into why she feels the way she does!"

To anyone reading who hasn't listened---please give it a listen!

And Andrea---I LOVE YOUR CANADIAN ACCENT! Also, at the end Paul read an email I wrote him about my mom's Alzheimer's journey and how hard that was. Jesus, I lived it and it even made me cry.

[JimmyTheNeurotypical]

Thank you so much Andrea.
I want to post what I wrote in to Paul, since you're here.


I never would have viewed myself as a child sexual abuse survivor. I've been battling PTSD and viewing it from the lens of extreme emotional neglect. But your story opened my eyes about what I experienced, the pure psychological violence that was done to me. Everything you experienced and described, it fits and parallels me. The physical actions aren't the important part. It is the emotional wound that was inflicted by the violation.

At age 11 (I believe) I was nearly killed by older step sibling (male) who made me to participate in gasoline inhalation. It was horrifying. I didn't ever think of that as something violent as in the forces exerted your offenders. It was followed by a very brief contact on me and just like you I became locked up and frozen, unable to flee or object, or comply with any instructions.

I keep getting the feeling that if there had actually been anyone to trust or tell, the opportunity for the abuse never would have existed. Someone would've cared. We wouldn't have had to just sit, saying in our head "someone please come out and save me"
We would not have been the easy target, and had our childhood taken away.

Emotional neglect and actual abuse/trauma feed back and forth in a vicious cycle.

[Omniel]

Wow, Jimmy--that's heavy. I remember what it was like to know nobody would come to the rescue but still have that wish that someone would.

I'm sorry that happened to you, it's horrific and it's wrong.

[imnotcrzee]

Omniel, thank you for your kind words. It has taken a lot of therapy and a long time to be able to talk so openly about what happened and to express how I feel. I relate that feeling when hearing your own words read back to you. It is similar to hearing my voice. It is me, I lived that trauma, I have talked about it and so much more, but....that was the first time I was able to listen to myself. A surreal and humbling experience. All the best.

[imnotcrzee]

Jimmy. Thank you for sharing what you wrote. I agree with everything you say. I went through a period of resentment and anger about not having emotional security. I have blamed myself over and over for not saying something at the time. Replayed the "what if's" a thousand times.
I spoke to a friend who I hold in the highest regard about her rape. She had a good support system, adults and older siblings who helped her and loved her. I told her how brave she was to get help right away and wish I would have done the same.
(BTW - she is also my best friends sister - it was her boyfriend and his friend that raped me)
I was surprised when she told me she wished she had never told. She thought I was brave to hold it in until I could process and deal with the pain. She told me how her life was flipped upside down, her family was well meaning but treated her differently, she was told to stop being a victim, her life choices were scrutinized and felt as if her dignity had been stolen.
She moved to another country, away from all of friends and family and never went back. She married a man who was abusive because she thought that was all she deserved. Her drinking escalated and she because an addict, dependent on alcohol and attention to ease her pain.

You know Jimmy, after that conversation with my friend (we were both adults now),
for the first time I realized the "if' only's" I had been so infuriated by, could have actually made my situation worse...different for sure...but maybe it wouldn't have been better//

So I have parlayed that in this: I do better. I break the cycle. I am open and willing to listen. I promote full disclosure communication with my kids. I talk with them about anything they bring up. There is nothing off limits. I want to give them the tools I never had and show them how to use them. I hope that will be the end of a detrimental cycle and the beginning of a new and beautiful circle of life and love.
Msg me anytime. All the best

[CharlotteC]

Wow, what a knockout ending to the loves list. Thank you for saying it so well Andrea! Great interview.

I am sending you big hugs in the hope that every day you get better at loving and forgiving yourself for what you perceive are your flaws and/or mistakes. You do not need to feel ashamed for not telling anyone what happened to you! It sounds to me like you were trying to protect yourself the best way you knew how, just like you protected your sisters by not telling. I'm not convinced that telling would have made it easier. I don't think you can know what the right thing to do was. But you can totally forgive yourself and protect and love yourself now!

My sister told (about what my asshole pedo uncle did to us) and the reaction from my mother scarred me way more than the original crime. Being a narcissist (and in love with him, her sister's husband), she made it all about her -- "He didn't do this to you, he did this to me!" -- then a few years later invited him over without warning, with the excuse, "I forgave him!" She erased me and my experience in so many ways, but that one was the worst.

But your story reminded me of something else. Even before she told me she forgave him (which happened when I was 17) I remember she called him to pick me up at the bus depot in Vancouver late one night (I'd fallen asleep and missed my stop). I was 13, this was two years after she'd been told about the grabbing and exposing and groping under the blanket. I remember getting into his van. For 45 minutes we drove in silence. I sat as far away from him as I could, and stared out the window. When you talked about getting into that woman's car, with those guys in the back...I know what you went through was way worse. But I also REALLY related to that feeling of -- "well, what else am I supposed to do? I guess I better get in the car." That feeling of helplessness, of being caught up in something so fucked up and hurtful and beyond your comprehension. Where the people who are supposed to protect you instead throw you in harm's way and then go on like nothing's wrong. And so of course you also go on like nothing's wrong. It's what you've been taught to do.

I am so grateful you are strong enough to talk about your experience. I believe that when people have treated you like an object, the absolute best way to defy that bullshit is to love yourself unconditionally, the way you'd love a friend, or a child. Listen to what your heart tells you it needs, treat yourself with compassion, be on your own side, and be patient with yourself. You sound warm, fun, insightful, brave, wise...and you sound like a great mom. I wish I could have had a mom like you.

*hugs*

[Charlie]

I'm glad someone else mentioned Andrea's accent! So cute! I kept waiting for "sorrys" and "abouta" and enjoying them when they came along!

Also good on you Andrea for having the courage to work for your health! I think you helped a lot of people with this episode.

[Omniel]

Charlotte---yes, the car! The car part of Andrea's story gave me the chills, I couldn't even imagine having gone through all that and then....you have to ride with these animals staring at the back of your head and act like nothing is wrong.

And I'm sorry for what happened to you AND you actually have a double betrayal--your mother. It's really the most basic of betrayal--the person who gave birth to you, who is supposed to protect you--doesn't. Toxic!

My mother never betrayed me like that, but she did stand by while my father beat the hell out of me and my brothers when we were young (to interfere would get her a beating too...I guess they call that "survival of the fittest"?). My mother was profoundly depressed and angry throughout my life. It was about her needs only. I remember trying to be involved in a city choir - I auditioned and actually got in, they were picky - but then I was faced with having to find my own way to the rehearsals and even trying to make my own costume because my mother refused to have anything to do with it. I remember making and going to my own dental appointments (she would give me a check) on my bike. Those are a couple of examples of how we were left to our own devices.

But...the amazing thing - when she got Alzheimer's, it erased every bit of that selfish, angry and unloving person. What I got was this sweet lady who would say "I love you" and hug me. I came in one day to visit her and kissed her, she kept pursing her lips for more kisses and I said "how many kisses would you like?" "A thousand" was her answer. A few months before she died, I was kissing her goodbye, her one working arm came up and took my glasses off my face and she was staring at me. I asked what she was looking at and she said "Beauty."

Alzheimer's is nasty. It's brutal. But I never would have had over 3 years of being able to feel unconditional love, the kind of love where you would die for someone else, unless it had happened to her.

[CharlotteC]

Omniel -- thanks. It means so much to me to have someone acknowledge my mother's betrayal and agree that it was wrong. Toxic -- that's a good word. It has poisoned our relationship for many years, even though we never speak of it. She wouldn't accept it, wouldn't listen. She only hears the echoes inside her own head.

I went back and listened to your story about your mother's final years (I hadn't listened to the end the first time around). It was incredibly moving, the details of her last moments, just everything -- and I'm amazed by what you've added here about her personality changing with the dementia. What a strange blessing in disguise! (despite how hard it must have been). I felt pretty much exactly what Paul described -- jealousy, and foreboding that when my mother dies I will feel nothing but bitterness, shame, and regret. Your memory about riding your bike to dental appointments with a check -- how did you manage to forgive her? You sound very patient and kind. I'm afraid my parents' failures have hardened me too much. I remember walking by myself to the hospital to have some incredibly uncomfortable tests done when I was 13 -- I didn't know what to do or expect, and the tests were humiliating (I ended up crying in the bathroom with a nurse trying, unsuccessfully, to console me) -- then walking down that long road home again, feeling so alone. My parents think only of themselves. I can't imagine ever feeling good about caring for them.

It's so good to hear other people talk about these things, and to have people listen. Thank you so much, and take care!