Episode 184: Pamela Martin

[gfyourself]

I got a lot out of this episode.

The main part for me was not a specific topic but that the guest was so detached when speaking about the early abuse. Also admitting that she hasn't fully processed it yet. You could tell the guest got more comfortable as the interview went on. I found the smiling picture of her on the website and her demeanor on the podcast a bit incongruous but I guess that's about the people pleasing.

When she mentioned that chronic fatigue syndrome was good in a way... I think it was because when you have a certain issue that always comes first, it makes decision-making much easier.

It would be fun for Paul to do fears and loves and to have the guest guess whether its his fear or his dog's fear.

Thanks Paul.

[ghughes1980]

I'm sorry but CFS was on the back burner to Paul's usual obsession with sex abuse and depression in this episode.

"Is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (Fibromyalgia, ME, etc) a purely physical ailment or is there also an emotional component related to trauma. Pamela shares about being an incest survivor as well as the challenges of living with CFS and being a people pleaser. She also shares about raising a child with Selective Mutism and learning to be emotionally intimate with her supportive husband. Pamela is also a singer/songwriter."

This is a misleading description for the amount of time actually spent on CFS and it's relation to trauma. This episode 95% reliving abuse and 3% on CFS leaving 2% for adds. If you are looking for an interview about CFS or how to cope this isn't it. As usual this is Paul trying to compare his emotional incest to someone's actual incest experience.

A more constructive use of the time would have been talking about dealing with CFS and coping skills and how Pamela's family juggles her issues along with having a child with selective mutism while also maintaining a life/hobbies/friends and work.

I'm not saying that the abuse never happened or isn't important, again I'm just saying change to title and be more honest with the listeners.

[Jimmy]

I did not like this person. I understand intellectually that this woman has been through hell and back. I was trying really hard to take that into consideration when listening but to me she seemed dishonest, spaced out and quite creepy. I can see why healthy people don't like me because I loathed this person and wouldn't want to spend a second in her presence.

[irrationalpersist]

Wow. Is there no where safe to talk about our inner lives and allow ourselves to be vulnerable?

We live in a society that stigmatizes any expression of frailty or weakness. As a society we need to take a look at the systemic and local causes of the conditions that give rise to those weaknesses. It is very convenient to point fingers and blame others for conditions that we, in fact, are partly responsible for creating. Whenever we take the harsh judgements that we internalize on ourselves and turn them outward onto others we are perpetuating the very conditions that cause our own suffering and isolation. This is not an either/or proposition - it is not nurture vs nature or individual vs society. It is nurture and nature, individual and society.

I thought the conversation between Paul and Pamela was sensitive to both the historical conditions that would contribute to her condition, and the contemporary problems that this condition engenders. I thought they made a very interesting connection between childhood sexual abuse and stress triggering CFS episodes.

I am in awe of the strength and courage Pamela showed, to share her life with Paul and allow us to listen in. Knowing how profoundly injured any of us are from childhood deprivation, abuse, abandonment and betrayal, I am surprised that anyone would take it upon themselves to target a guest with harmful comments. We have all suffered in our way, we are all gaining strength with each passing day. Let us help each other along and leave the sea anchor of cruelty behind us.

If you feel an urge to attack a defenceless person, who has been generous enough to share her story, and who has no recourse to rebut baseless accusations, take that urge and turn it on yourself - not to attack yourself instead of her, but to give yourself the love you so desperately need. Our humanity is evolving, that is, it is changing over time. It is up to us to contribute to the kind of changes we want to see.

Pamela, thank you for sharing your story with us. Thank you for helping us understand how we can provide for children in abusive situations, how we can protect them, how we can let them know we care. Thank you for your hard work to recover from the injurious conditions of your own childhood to provide for your children and break the spell of multiple generations of abuse. Thank you for surviving and showing us that it can be done.

[LimitedAdventure]

I was moved to get an account here and post because the Pamela Martin episode was one of my very favorite episodes. Specifically, I loved the discussion about being a "people pleaser" and what that actually means. I was so happy to hear this being addressed because it doesn't get discussed enough. It is hell. You take on, you adopt & you assume responsibility for the emotional well-being of others in your environment. People pleasers get started at a young age, falling into that pattern of thinking as a defense mechanism in a chaotic environment, but then never revisit it, and carry it with them into their adult lives.

It's a way of thinking that causes so much mental fatigue because you're trying to constantly read & adapt to & cater to the emotional status of others. It sucks. I am one, I've been in therapy for it and many other related issues. I thank Pamela for sharing her story. God Bless her.

[homestar2525]

@ghughes1980 - I have been browsing the episode threads and it seems that you constantly pounce on these threads to proclaim your disgust with Paul's sexual focus in the episodes. There is some truth to what you are saying - it would have been nice to hear a bit more about CFS in the episode - and Paul recognizes this trend and addresses it in his "fear off". You're certainly making his fear a reality here. So I'm wondering, why are you continually posting essentially the same complaint on the forum time after time? Clearly Paul has registered the complaint and has been second-guessing himself about it, but with abuse being a central part of many guests' lives and Paul looking to connect with these (mostly) strangers, it makes sense and I find it ultimately uplifting and interesting to listen to.

I'm guessing you are longing for the early days of the podcast before Paul starting working through his issues with his Mom. I think you should either stick to listening to old episodes you know are quality, or take a break from listening to the podcast and stick to other parts of the forum for the support that relates directly to your situation without the sexual abuse talk that clearly upsets you. There may be podcasts hosted by professionals that would be better suited for you - as people with mental health issues, I don't think it's fair for us to forbid Paul, someone who clearly is not a professional and does not intend the podcast to be a therapy session for the listener, from bringing his baggage to the table and being honest about what's on his mind. Maybe someone could recommend a podcast of this type.

[ghughes1980]

I do take breaks. CFS however is very close to what I'm dealing with and this episode basically ignored it in favour of Paul's agenda of trauma and sex abuse.

This keeps happening with guests who have an interesting story on paper until Paul interjects with the sex questions. I would just like to see a tag put on the episodes that promise one topic but the show ends up being about sex abuse rather than the specified topic in the description. I've mentioned this before but there are podcasts that deal with sex already on itunes. if I wanted to hear about sexual dis-function or abuse there are other places to go. There are not however many places that discuss depression. So having the discussion dominated by Paul's mother and sex surveys that depict graphic abuse is getting a bit frustrating.

Out of the thousands of filled out surveys on the site there might be a % that are about abuse but I'm willing to bet there are a great number that do not deal with sex at all but rather clinical depression or low grade depression. There are probably a fair number dealing with Bipolar Disorder or something else, let's give those people a voice too. I'm also in favour of more post-pardom or other topics that aren't based in trauma but rather brain chemistry. I have yet to hear from any guest that is dealing with a physical injury and how that impacts their depression in 184 episodes, that has to be a record. I am not counting episode 46: With Mark Teich either because his illness was glossed over in favour of a discussion about chronic lying rather than how he felt about having scleroderma. Episode 86: with Ted Lyde comes close to what I'm after, but it's from a perspective of a parent of someone with an issue rather than how a person with an issue would deal. I have made suggestions before for guests so there's nothing much else I can do but sit back and look every week until someone shows up that isn't in Paul's wheel house of trauma+depression=a good episode.

[ghughes1980]

I would also be thrilled if someone would seriously discuss Body Dysmorphia (that's spelled right this forum needs an updated dictionary!) and how they made changes in their life either through CBT or some other therapy.

[fifthsonata]

It would be nice to hear some diversity, but I know Paul would be more receptive to your comments if you approached it in a respectful manner, ghughes. I know you're tired of hearing about sex and depression, but like others have mentioned, Paul has made it clear he's working on this in himself and it makes sense he wants to discuss these subjects. We all dwell on the things that have a tremendous impact on our lives. He's approaching these things from his perspective, not from a professional, so his viewpoint is more subjective than objective like a professional would have.

Don't forget that Paul is a human and he deserves to be treated with respect and kindness, like you and everyone else. Your response, and a few others, were hurtful. He will be more responsive if you approach the criticism with respect.

[ghughes1980]

For someone every week telling people to fuck themselves, I'm sure Paul can take the critical responses. If he can't he knows where to find me and we can have a discussion about it. I'm not hard to find on social media. I'm also very open to diologue since I have all the free time in the world.