Danielle Koenig

[next year]

Thanks to Danielle for being so open and honest about her brother's suicide. My husband's brother committed suicide when he was 20, and I had dated my husband for months before I even knew that his brother had committed suicide. His family rarely talks about his brother, much less his suicide. It is such a painful thing for a family, and I give the Koenigs so much credit for being so open and honest about Andrew and his illness. It will go a long way toward their healing. After 25 years my husband's family is still struggling with the aftermath. It was a different time, and his family was raised Catholic so they had different ways of dealing (or not dealing) with suicide back then. His mother refers to it as an "accident."

I gained a lot of insight from listening to Danielle's interview. I thought her comments about him not suffering anymore were particulary touching. I think I understand what she meant, because my husband has said that he thinks his brother killed himself because just living day to day was so hard for him. (He had a chronic health condition that he would sometimes be hospitalized for.)

[Artmart]

I got a lot out of all of this as well. I have seen several people that I had been close to at one time take their own life. When she said he was not suffering any longer, and she realized there was nothing she could have done, it made me think of it in a different light.

[janey]

Yes, when Danielle said that, I was reminded of something Norman Fischer said once in a small seminar I attended on grief. He said that he thinks that there are certain people who feel the emotions of the world in an unfiltered way, kind of the way we talk about autistic people not being able to filter sensory input -- it all comes in with equal volume and priority -- and he said he thinks that those people, the emotion-bearers of the community, sometimes have to act on the pain in a way that is not understandable to others, who are able to filter it out. This is a paraphrase of something he said 6 or 8 years ago, so don't hold him to it.

I also wanted to say that this is the first mental health happy hour podcast that I have listened to, and so this may have been addressed elsewhere, but it seems to me that, along with pride, there are some reasons not discussed on this episode that we might not look for help. One is that depression, like anything else with a lifecycle, wants to continue its existence and will do whatever it takes to prevent its host from getting rid of it.

The other is that there's a weird sort of satisfaction in being depressed, because if you look for reasons to be depressed, you can find them very easily. So I notice that I will absolutely set myself up to have my depression (or anger or sadness or whatever negative emotion is at the forefront) validated. And I think sometimes validation, the sense of being "right", is more satisfying than happiness.

[Paul Gilmartin]

Janey,
Really insightful thoughts about the reasons we don't seek help. I agree. Never underestimate the allure to be "right". It seems the two ways I can veer off course are with self-pity or self-righteous anger.


Paul

[janey]

Ooh, yeah, self pity is a good one. I was mentioning to a friend the other day that I have to keep close tabs on myself when I'm depressed because I know that I will set up a situation in which the other person is bound to let me down, and then I'll feel fully justified in my self-pity.

For example: I never make a big deal out of my birthday (or other holidays). However, more than one boyfriend has said that he wants to make a big deal out of it. The pattern seems to be: I insist I don't care, but he insists we do something. Then he doesn't do anything. Then I feel sorry for myself. I like to believe that because I expect so little, I am particularly hurt when promises are broken, but in reality I think that I am to blame, at least in part, for these broken promises. If I keep insisting that birthday celebrations don't mean much to me, then my partner is bound to think that it doesn't matter if he doesn't come through.

So I get to wallow *and* I get to be right *and* I get to further entrench my depression. What a neat trick.

[OGRastamon]

So I just discovered your podcast through Christine Taylor's blog and without reading her article or anything on your website I dove right into the archives on the strength of your good name. My intent was to start with episode 1 but stopped short when I saw Danielle Koenig. I have a bit of an inappropriate crush on her after seeing her barefoot and pregnant on YouTube (which like a sleazy stalker I just re-watched) and like any long-time listener of NNF I have a deep emotional response to her family name which has nothing to do with being a Trekkie.

RE: The Episode- Dammit! How do so many 'comedy' podcasts lead me down the road of processing my own suicide attempt (I'm talking to you, Marc Maron!)? I expected an Ask A Republican segment not analysis. That said I found it enjoyable in the sense of the word in which the joy is completely absent. I was deeply moved by Danielle's revelations about herself and the loss of her brother. We lost a lot of noted people in 2010 and none of them resonates more in me than Andrew's death. That's the personal nature of podcasting at work.

RE: Danielle's Clueless Guy-I don't think she realizes that some of us remain uncertain of a woman's desire to have sex with us up to and sometimes beyond the point of penetration. While it's possible this guy wasn't attracted to her I think it more likely that he wasn't going to make a move without her permission and that if he picked up on any of her cues he dismissed them as wishful thinking.

RE: 12 Godparents and Making An Impact- Aside from the subjects of depression and suicide nothing hit home harder. Not mattering to others is not only one of my biggest fears but in inverse my greatest faults. While I am hurt by others because evidence indicates that I am not important I in turn hurt others because I am incapable of recognizing how what I do and say does impact their lives. I empathize with Danielle's position on the godparent matter but recognize that she's living in her head. When her friend chose these people (a joint project with her husband, no doubt), while it was cased in an aura of meaning, it was ultimately a meaningless activity. One that involved selecting from a vast number of relatives and friends on both sides. Some who are seen daily or weekly. If Danielle was considered and dismissed I'm sure it was because she was not someone that was resonant in their day to day lives and because they never considered for a moment the awkward situation this would cause upon her next visit. It's like when I'm asked to list my favorite music artists. The Beatles had a tremendous impact on my journey of musical discovery but I don't really listen to them anymore. Should I put them on the list? Do I even think of them given the vast number of artists I've encountered in the ensuing years and are currently on the Ipod? I dread what would happen if Sir Paul asked why they didn't make the cut.

Anyway. Thanks, Paul. I think I'll cleanse my palette with some DLM but I'll be back.

[Stina]

I'm continuing to play catch-up and found myself listening to this episode on Saturday. The timing was kinda perfect, as Suicide Prevention Week started on Sunday. It got me in the "mood," so to speak. I appreciated Danielle's perspective on Andrew's illness and death on a few levels, primarily that of a sister who lost a brother. That's where I'm coming from too. Thank you so very much, Danielle, for sharing your story.