YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

It's interesting how much I related with Mike Schmidt's need for structure and ability to produce just what is asked of him. When he said he had so much ability and was squandering it all, it sounded like exactly what I say to myself just about every night when I realize that I let so much of the day (or sometimes the entire day) slip away without doing something productive. My therapist says I'm too hard on myself, but I have a hard time believing that I'm wrong. I do feel like when I'm feeling okay (or on the rare occasion, good) that I get so much done and everything moves along nicely. And if I could work like that every day my level of success would be amazing! But I can't keep it up every day, I get so tired and resentful. In this episode, Paul mentioned that someone else had mentioned they had a "tyrant and a rebel" in their head and that is EXACTLY what is going on with me. Because I've had to take care of myself for practically my entire life (and my parents didn't pass on any great life lessons) I have to tell myself what to do but then I get very frustrated that I still have to take care of myself and figure everything out on my own all of these years later.

Anyone else have thoughts on the idea that we are hard on ourselves when we wish we could be as productive as we are when we feel good? What other way is there to be?

threeletters wrote:Anyone else have thoughts on the idea that we are hard on ourselves when we wish we could be as productive as we are when we feel good?

Constantly. The irony of me spouting wisdom on this topic is tough to get past, but hey, I've spent a ton of time thinking about it and some of that time trying different things. So maybe I am qualified, in a way.

Attaching my self-worth or my ego to productivity, for me, has been like making a deal with the devil. Occasionally, I can be incredibly driven and "outwork" just about anyone I know. But the catch is that, again for me, most of that drive is fear-based and shame-based. I "overachieve" basically because my success can be pretty much the only way for me to feel good about myself. My goals are often unrealistic, so eventually I feel like a failure anyway. Then it gets really nasty. My whole life starts to feel like a never-ending string of failures. I can't get motivated, but I can't stand feeling lazy. Ugh, nasty.

It's a weird combination of skills to accept myself unconditionally, and then commit to making changes. In my case, I need to very clear in my mind about what I want out of life and why. If I can be comfortable with the reasons for doing something, then it will get done. If the self-critical inner voice in me starts directing my actions, then it's going be a bumpy ride. Maybe I'm a little more messed up than the average guy. Maybe I missed the point of your question. But like you I am very hard on myself, and I do feel especially bad about my low-productivity days.

It was an amazing podcast, I would like to write more, but I felt compelled to write about "the tyrant and the rebel" - you have a tyrant inside you screaming at you to achieve, but you also have a rebel inside you that resists all the screamed commands of the tyrant.

That was a huge part of my thinking of myself, especially 10 years ago. I now think "the tyrant and the rebel" are bullshit. "The tyrant and the rebel" are really the same person, speaking out of both sides of his mouth - it is a game where he wants to do zero work, where he gets to do absolutely zero work, but can still claim he *really* *wants* to work by pointing out how much beating himself up he does. But all that screaming is really just play acting.

It has nothing to do with "not wanting to do what you are told". Nobody wants to do what they are told, and it is impossible to do all that you are told because so many different people are telling you to do so many different contradictory things.

When somebody tell you what to do, or when your "tyrant" tells you what to do, *you* decide whether or not it is in your best interest to do it, and then you try to do it. If you don't want to do it, but you still need to serve your ego and thus you need to be able to convince yourself that you still *want* to do it, you play a game called "the tyrant and the rebel". It is pure posturing for the sake of faking an identity for service of your ego.

If you had a horse that you had to ride out of a huge desolate prairie, to get medical help after you got shot in the leg, and your wound was at risk of becoming badly infected, you would not treat that horse as a tyrant would. You would be blessedly careful how you treated that horse, never treating it too firm or too laxly. You would work very hard to get maximal benefit from that horse that was going to take you to medical treatment out of that huge desolate prairie, you would make sure the animal had enough water and grass to eat, and you would treat that horse exactly as you would anything that carried your life in the balance - very very carefully and lovingly. If the horse itself got injured, you would make sure it got proper rest, because if the animal is incapacitated, you are dead.

How you treat that horse is exactly how you should treat yourself. *YOU* are your only rescue out of the desolate prairie of depression and anxiety. It has nothing to do with being a tyrant or a rebel or any of that bullshit. If your acting like a tyrant risks incapacitating yourself by facilitating a breakdown, you are dead.

I am scared to death about my situation, but I treat myself carefully and lovingly, because there is no rescue from depression and anxiety other than myself. I don't have time to play the game called "the tyrant and the rebel".

It's a weird combination of skills to accept myself unconditionally, and then commit to making changes.

This is an interesting concept. I like it because it means things are in progress. And just like with any other illness, it will take time to get better and you can't ask for too much from yourself than what your body (or mind) can handle. And I like the idea of relying on yourself as if your life depended on it (the horse analogy).

I guess I just don't know what it feels like to accept myself unconditionally. I've always had something that was "wrong" that needed fixing. For a long time it was my weight. Now it's more about my motivation. Unfortunately, I work in a very unstructured profession (I'm an academic). I make my own schedule and work on whatever I want, whenever I want to. It's very difficult to trust that what I'm working on is the thing I should be working on. I basically am my own boss, but I don't really think the boss knows what she's doing.

I've been trying lately to remind myself of how good it will feel when things are done. So instead of having a tyrant saying "You need to finish the next step in the project or you're not meant to be an academic at all...everyone will see you can't cut it," I say to myself "It will feel SO GOOD to have finished the next step in this project. Then it will be one step closer to being finished." It seems to be working for now (and I use it for self-care too, since those things tend to suffer when a depressive episode gets really bad). I'm slightly worried the usefulness will go away, but I think that's the rebel just trying to make me be resentful again.

I guess it's always a work in progress.

Just felt compelled to say this was a great episode. I was surprised Mike felt like he didn't have enough compelling material to share. Yeah, he might not have a jar of teeth, but punching yourself in the face for five minutes to look good in front of the cops? Abandonment, criminals being harbored in his home growing up, parents' substance use/abuse, BEATING UP A CAR? Pretty compelling stuff. The story about his mom and Mrs. Crum (?) was probably the single most entertaining thing I've heard on here. I don't mean to make light of a story about violence, but shoot...it WAS entertaining.

Anyway, I always find something useful from every guest, but sometimes these ones that are supposedly less "dramatic" actually have more me. I can't necessarily relate to being strung out on drugs, but I can relate to self-doubt or procrastination like Mike was talking about. So anyway, thanks for keeping it diverse in terms of the types of guests. Thanks!

I am not a Schmidt fan, at least not anymore. Im not saying he is a bad person or doesn't have a good podcast, but I just cant (given my own situation) empathize with someones personal destructive/anger issues that for whatever reason does not get (or at least got the impression he didn't) any counseling for. I was a fan until the episode where he talked about his troubles at a middle eastern restaurant where he ordered something that he didn't care for, and the owner who know the couple, and was friendly with, was standing behind them while Mike complained about how he hated "warm yogurt", etc.. Just basic friggen etiquette and not this "oh that's just the way I am" bullshit, being honest doesnt always mean "be honest" meaning unfiltered every time to everyone about everything.

Sorry.. My 2 bits..

threeletters wrote:I guess I just don't know what it feels like to accept myself unconditionally.

Thank you for saying this. I didn't mean to imply that I am good at accepting myself. To be honest, it takes a HUGE amount of effort for me to make even a tiny amount of progress on accepting myself. When I do make progress though, it is such a beautiful feeling that I don't even mind having to struggle to get there. It seems like the kind of thing that's going to take quite a bit of repetition before it becomes a new habit. I guess that makes sense considering that I've been doing it the other way for 33 years. Okay, you've just inspired me to try again tonight.

I was surprised Mike felt like he didn't have enough compelling material to share.

How bout it????? I don't really know much about him but from what he said he could write a book. I really hope he does explore further counseling. I wanted to cry when he was talking about his abuse, saying "forget it, it doesn't matter." No wonder he has so much rage.

On the lighter side, I loved the peanut/peanut butter fight story. And the story of his mom getting into the fight, and the audible gasp from the crowd. LOL

Agreed that Mike Schmidt was a compelling interview. It was funny and warm but sad, too, because of so much unresolved stuff obviously chasing him down.

I just recently listened to this podcast and found it particularly powerful. Paul's parting comment about using self hatred as an excuse to keep thinking about one's self hit me like a brick. I really never thought about my self involvement that way, but it is completely true. Whether I'm hating myself or loving myself, both mindset can be selfish and isolate me off from other people. It may have been obvious to some but it really struck a chord with me. I really have been trying to incorporate it into my life.

Thanks Paul if you happen to read this.