Life is like that two week long Chinese traffic jam...

[cyanidebreathmint]

I'm feeling really sad today.

I don't have much hope my hardwiring can change, and even if it does, I'm years behind in the life game and I really can't imagine anyone wants me.

I've got a house full of people and couldn't be more lonely. I don't have anyone to talk to because I don't have the skills to know how, and nobody can help me really, and if they care it isn't enough for me. Nothing can prove it for me.

Ugh.

[cyanidebreathmint]

hey, darei,

if you are lurking say hi...i'm used to seeing you around more.

hope things are well.

[MissingHiker]

I might be able to help with this, Cyanide. I don't have the skills to talk to people, either, and that is, and always will be painful because talking to people is the gateway for good healthy relationships, and if you can't talk to people, you won't get that closeness and that intimacy. Believe me, I know.

I went through something you might be going through, I used to seek out people and relationships for validation. Then I could say, "See? This person thinks I'm a good person and made me a priority in their life. So, now I *know* I'm a good person!"

But, who was I saying that to?

I finally realized I was saying it to that prosecuting attorney Paul talks about. I have one in my head, too... my inner addict who's telling me I don't do enough, I don't have enough, and I'm not enough. And I'm justifying people's opinions of me to him based on the signals I would get. It consumed my alone time until I couldn't stand being alone... I was miserable and always wanted more data to take to the prosecuting attorney. And sometimes, I would be actually siding with him against me. I know, it sucked.

It still sucks, it's still the default position in my brain and I have to catch it and rational response it when it happens. But, I'm getting a little better at it over time and finding a little more peace in my alone time. An extra blunt tool that I have is that I know for sure that people are inundated with so much information in our society today, that they'll easily forget all kinds of things, including me. That friend who my prosecuting attorney wants to put on the stand and try may really be my friend, who's also just a fallible human being, who made a mistake, and just forgot, like he or she probably forgot a half a dozen other things that day. We are all fallible human beings, and we all forget stuff. I bet I've even sent accidental invalidating blow-off signals to people I totally never meant to send them to.

Do you have a prosecuting attorney who's taken up residence in your head who's telling you people in your life don't care enough? My prosecuting attorney, who will always be there- he's just going to be mine to manage, will always try to tell me I need more proof that someone is my friend. There will never be enough proof. And, ya know...and I'm not saying this to be funny, I'm totally serious, we cannot prove the JFK assassination.. we cannot prove what happened to Amelia Earhart... great scientific minds have worked on these mysteries for decades. In life, the proof that that prosecuting attorney is looking for with just regular people? That proof doesn't exist anywhere... for anyone.

[BecomingKind]

I had some clarity about something similar. I was thinking about "fantasy bonds" - (for example, the child censors its perception of the parent so it can have a connection. This is then repeated with partners and friends. We bond with a fantasy-version of the person.)

The body is like an antenna that picks up what is going on, what people are thinking, what signals they are sending. If the environment for a child is shit, it mutes the antenna and stops learning how to use it. What we really need to do, is to not let our identity be defined by the signals from the body, and learn to use the antenna properly.

Part of the feeling of being alienated, I think, is from having the body's antenna atrofied from being muted and undeveloped. The things that are still picked up through the antenna are crude and received without filters. The signals are probably accurate as such. If you sense stay-away-vibes from a person, there's probably a reason for it. People are always (always) looking for company and friends.

It is more likely that we are the ones sending stay-away vibes, because we feel alienated and unable to connect. We then perceive muted and muffled signals back, that feed our perceived identity and fantasy of the environment. It's like a child blocking out the parents fighting and pretending to not be bothered the next day.

I've missed so many subtle signals from being muted out, and responded with fuck-off vibes without being aware of it.

That friend who my prosecuting attorney wants to put on the stand and try may really be my friend, who's also just a fallible human being, who made a mistake, and just forgot

What if people really hate you? Are you going to go along with that? They shouldn't have a mandate at all.

The truth is probably that people are always mirroring the way we present ourselves to them, roughly.

My take now is to work on myself to be able to offer the sort of company I want and need myself. That involves learning to use my antenna, and not looking for characters to fill my fantasies.

[cyanidebreathmint]

My problem is that I know that people love and care for me but I can't feel it. It is an intellectual understanding. So I find myself acting, a lot, as though I can feel it. Because people deserve to feel that the love they show is felt. But honestly, by body always feels shaky and uncomfortable and I rarely, pretty much never feel comfort from people. I think the shrink and I are narrowing it down to an attachment disorder, and from what I've read it doesn't even seem dramatic or unrealistic for me to say there isn't much hope for me. I'm getting too old, and by the time I have had the years of therapy I need to make a dent in it nobody will want me anyway.

[BecomingKind]

Be careful about affirmations. I hate "pinning down" to a "disorder" because it makes it sound so final. When things change, it happens instantly. It's like studying takes time but graduation goes by in a day.

Nothing is ever too late, either. You might be behind in some areas but you are ahead in others. Most people are too scared to do any relevant introspection and are just lucky to have avoided the challenges that can derail a life.

So I find myself acting, a lot, as though I can feel it.

Are you only acting for your own sake? The universal deal is that you get back what you give. Are you making someone feel seen, meaningful and comfortable?

[cyanidebreathmint]

Maybe on some level it's for myself. People won't stay around an empty person for long, and I want to avoid being abandoned. But it's also for others so they don't think I hate them since I can put out accidental hate vibes I guess. I get the avoiding the label thing. At the same time, if that comes somewhere close to explaining my malfunction I'm all for it since the guilt produces so much self hatred in me

[MissingHiker]

MissingHiker wrote:
That friend who my prosecuting attorney wants to put on the stand and try may really be my friend, who's also just a fallible human being, who made a mistake, and just forgot

What if people really hate you? Are you going to go along with that? They shouldn't have a mandate at all.

I didn't explain myself well at all. Sorry. I was trying to use what is a really good Paul analogy for having to justify everything to an inner voice, a prosecuting attorney, that's always tearing me down, but I kind of bastardized it. I've only recently learned I don't have to justify anything to that voice, which was installed there decades ago without my permission, and a big part of that was learning how the inner voice got there so I could distinguish it from my own.

I find myself doing some acting as well. Because I want to please people so they won't abandon me. To me, abandonment is the ultimate invalidation and I want to avoid it at all costs. I'm just now learning, very slowly, that abandonment is actually a part of life. BFF gets thrown around a lot, so it's actually very rare. People don't mean to abandon each other, they just move through their lives, and often over the course of a lifetime, many Best Friends Forevers will drift in and out as times and circumstances change. It's OK. For most people. But to me, it is terrifying.

Another way I found that I avoid abandonment is to just not get close to people in the first place. Then they can't abandon me. So, I would want the validation from the companionship of a good person, but was always too scared of the risks of rejection or abandonment that went along with pursuing it.

[manuel_moe_g]

Another way I found that I avoid abandonment is to just not get close to people in the first place. Then they can't abandon me. So, I would want the validation from the companionship of a good person, but was always too scared of the risks of rejection or abandonment that went along with pursuing it.

One thing that helped me was to first pursue asymmetric relationships, where I decided ahead of time to give more than I received. One benefit of such a one sided relationship is that I am in greater control. The downer is that I really desire someone to take a close interest in me, but for fear and for not being able to attract such a person, that really isn't an option.

There is the possibility that because of my introversion, human relations are really taxing for me, and even a close relationship may feel distant to me, because of how hard I have to work.

Not sure I said anything helpful... But, cosmically, it seems like I would get good karma from "paying it forward" and giving people the attention that I would desire for myself.

[MissingHiker]

But, cosmically, it seems like I would get good karma from "paying it forward" and giving people the attention that I would desire for myself.

Me too dude!! I did this all my life!

But, someone who's insights who I do trust told me not too terribly long ago that this comes across as "smothering." And, I can understand that. So, I've been working on deliberately trying to come across as aloof.

My relationships run hot/cold... if I like someone, I smother. If I am neutral or dislike, I come across as aloof. So now with people who I like/respect, I'm trying to be very neutral, distant... still affable, tho... I guess "Speak when spoken to" is my mode now.

I'm feeling my way around in the dark, I just have no natural instincts at how to interact.