YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

yesterday and today have been really rough. i got a new job and gave my two weeks notice at work, and yesterday they started interviewing internal candidates for my job. this shouldn't bother me, and i don't have a real good reason why, but it really put me in a funk for the rest of the day.

i got my hair cut a couple days ago, 6 inches off, and no one noticed except the one person i told i was getting a hair cut. again, this is so stupid and shouldn't bother me, but it's been making the wheels in my head spin a little bit with negative thoughts; no one cares about me, i'm invisible, my hair looks fucking ridiculous, why do i care, i'm embarrassed that i even care about this, etc.

i posted something about denying myself sleep and no one here responded to it. again, what does it matter!? it's not like people purposely didn't respond to be malicious, but then i start thinking, maybe no one likes me here, maybe i'm annoying, etc.

i have a really stressful week coming up next week. on 6/29 it's both the last day at my current job and we're closing on our house. on 7/1 we're moving into the new house. on 7/2 i start my new job. i'm hoping that maybe it's just the thought and stress of all this change coming up and being jam-packed together that has my brain on overdrive.

i'm just having a really hard time staying in a good headspace. I haven't packed enough, the house is a mess, i have so much to finish up in my last week at my current job (and instead of doing it, i'm posting this. before that i was staring at my computer screen blankly for half an hour), how is the new job going to be. blahh blahh blahh.

also, it was my mom's birthday yesterday. for the last year-ish in therapy i've been discovering some real anger toward my mom and how she raised me. it's anger i didn't know i had for a long time, because my dad was always the "bad guy in the story". but it made it really hard to go out to dinner with her on her birthday. i used to always get a really nice and love filled card for her, and she always appreciated it. this year when i was picking out cards, looking at those cards made me so angry. i bought a really sappy one anyway because she has no idea how i feel about her, and i don't know if i'm near ready to tell her, so i just had to keep things status quo.

fuck. sorry this is all over the place.

You are not annoying.

You don't need to apologize for being all over the place.

You are dealing with a lot of change all at once, so it seems to me that that might be a big part of what's got you feeling funny right now. It'll probably be better once you settle in.

You're not annoying. And you're not all over the place.

I saw the post about sleep -- meant to respond, wasn't sure quite what to say, then got wrapped up in my own issues. Sorry.

I completely understand the issue with greeting cards. I thought I was the only person who had to spend a couple of hours trying to find a stupid card that wasn't a complete f'ing lie about my relationship with my parents. I've made some peace with my father, but I never really did with my mother. She was an incredibly complex person -- could be very loving and caring, and then cruel and sarcastic. It's fueled a couple of years worth of therapy so far. I forgave her in my heart, but never talked with her about it before she died. In the end, I thought it would not be a good thing -- I'm not sure she ever really realized there was an issue, and delving into it would have just been hurtful for both of us -- and, as I say, I've let go most of what happened. There wasn't much point in it.

I understand and sympathize with your week. Any one of those things is stressful, and when you start adding them together the stress can become exponential. Do what you can to get out of your head. For the current job, try making a list of what needs to be done, then focus on being able to cross things off. It's stupid, but the process of making the list smaller can provide an emotional reward. Don't worry about the new job. (I know, right...) It's a good opportunity, it's a good move, remind yourself of the good things that are going to come from you having the new position. Make a list. On the move, you'll figure it out.

Will try for more later. I have my own work issues to go deal with. Hang in there.

thanks guys.

disclaimer: i do not expect people to respond to my posts and obviously no one is obligated to, that's ridiculous. it's all in my dumb head. please don't apologize in_media_res, you're an effing rockstar and have given me so much encouragement already.

i did just make a to do list for today: 5 things. and i told myself if i can get these 5 things done, then today will be a success.

i am so happy i'm not the only one who has issues with the greeting card thing. i felt like a complete fraud giving that card to my mom yesterday knowing that at this point i can't actually say any of those wonderful things to my mom with any true feelings behind them. i'm just so angry with her, but i know if i picked a simple happy birthday card, she would have been so disappointed because she doesn't think there is anything wrong with our relationship. better to forget how i'm feeling and just make her happy in this instance i guess.

I do the same thing. In terms of worrying you are annoying if no one responds. When of course there are a million reasons, I know with me some of the time my computer won't let me sign in to respond and then I give up lol. But yet, to me if no one responds to things I do, I am annoying and they hate me. While at same time, you don't feel like they are obligated. Hang in there!!

It's good you made the list. How did it go with the five things?

I'm not sure I'd view it as failure if you didn't get through them all -- after all, there may be things out of your control, something may take longer than expected, you may come up with something else that's more important. The value -- and success -- is in being able to see what's left to be completed, and in seeing the progress you made. If you only get one thing completed, you can still see progress, and see how the remaining list is smaller. And even if nothing gets crossed off, you at least have some ideas on what happened and can understand what needs to change to get through the list. There are all manner of cognitive disorders that you can fall into that will mess you up -- and "all or nothing" is a big one.

jenloiacono wrote:better to forget how i'm feeling and just make her happy in this instance i guess.

That's possible. I buried my feelings for most of my life, and it works, after a fashion. Of course, it left me pretty messed up as well. I'm not sure I'd recommend it for you, at least as a long term strategy.

One of the things I figured out in therapy was that my mother established -- and reinforced -- a lot of the foundation for why I'm the way I am. I have a deep fear of communicating with people because I'm afraid I'm going to say or do something that's going to cause them to respond negatively. That might mean being disapproving, being angry, or flying into an absolute rage at the slightest -- or no -- provocation. It's worst with the people I'm closest to -- family, friends, co-workers, and even therapists. That's where I have the most to lose.

I figured this out a couple of years ago, and in the case of my mother I was left with a problem. Most of what happened, the things that had damaged me and left me with all this fear, happened when I was a kid, a toddler even. That was a very, very long time ago. Like you, I had this challenge -- do I confront my mother, tell her how she hurt me, and explain what it did to me? Or do I just let it go?

In my case, I decided to let it go. The damage was pretty well done by that time, and she had fallen increasingly ill. I'm sure many of the things that are so vivid for me are events she would never have remembered. Buddhism speaks of the Eightfold Path, and one step of that path is right speech -- in part, it calls on us to speak that which is true, and that which is helpful. My feelings of anger and pain were quite real, and justified. So they were truthful. But I felt that sharing them with her wouldn't be helpful -- she might well regret what she had done, and my sharing would only bring her more pain at a point when she was suffering already, and had little life left. Instead of confronting her, I decided to begin work on a forgiveness meditation practice. It turned out I had a lot to forgive her and others for, and there was a long list of things bothering me for which I needed to seek forgiveness. It worked for me -- I was able to say goodbye to her, and was at peace with our relationship when she died.

You, I'm hoping, are in a different situation. You're much younger, and hopefully have much more of a relationship with your Mother -- and other family -- to look forward to enjoying. So I think, at least I'd suggest, you're going to want to find a way to share your feelings -- to speak your truth, in a way that's going to help. That doesn't mean you have to do it today. It sounds like you're just beginning to understand these feelings yourself. Give yourself time to understand how you feel and to come to terms with it. When you think you're ready, get your therapist's help in explaining what's going on, and in re-building the trust and the love. If that means you have to give her a card today that doesn't quite express your exact feelings at the moment, so be it. It's clear you care for her -- you obviously spent a lot of time thinking about it, and were concerned about how she'd interpret the card. So the words were probably true at least on some level -- and for the moment, it sounds like you didn't think it would be helpful to share otherwise. Go with that. Give yourself a break. Trust that your heart will know when the time is right, and that you'll be able to find the right way to tell her.

holy cannoli (wow did i just say that?) You are a very strong person to be able to achieve that kind of forgiveness, since from where i'm sitting now, that seems impossible.

a little (well probably a lot) of my story:

my parents divorced when i was in kindergarten, and my mom moved my sister i back to illinois where her parents lived. my dad was always the bad guy in my narrative, and i sort of viewed my mom as a super hero. she was this single mom raising two kids and making it all work.

well, i'm realizing how angry i am now about some things that happened while i was growing up. my emotions were never okay when i was growing up. if i was happy, i was told i was being to hyper and to settle down. if i was upset about something, i was always told that i was overreacting. i eventually learned that in my house, any and all emotion is wrong. there are three main events that i am furious about right now. (i just got back from talking about all of this in therapy.)

1. when i was probably in 2nd grade, i almost hung myself. i highly doubt that suicide was my intention, i don't really know why i did it in the first place.. but at any rate, i tied a jump rope around my neck and jumped off the top bunk of our bunk beds. i immediately freaked out and started screaming for my mom to come help me down. she came and got me down, but had zero reaction to it whatsoever. didn't acknowledge the event at all. if it had been my child, i would have immediately gotten our family some help to deal with whatever feelings/issues my child is having that would make them do something like that. nope. absolutely nothing. i doubt my mom even remembers it.

2. i remember being possibly in 5th or 6th grade and my mom actually suggested that i go to therapy. i'm surprised that she brought this up, maybe at this point, i was way too "out of control" "hyper" or "hyper sensitive" for her to deal with. i remember refusing to go, saying that i wasn't crazy and i wouldn't go. and that was the end of it. why on earth would she let me, the child she thinks is out of control and not making good decisions, make the executive decision not to get help. it shouldn't have been a choice. she should have been the parent and said that we are going to get help no matter what. looking back, it just feels like a half assed attempt to help me, but that she just didn't care enough to help me. just like she didn't care that i tried to hang myself.

3. finally, in high school, my gymnastics coach told my school counselor that she knew i was cutting (she had seen my cuts and scars, couldn't hide them very well in a leotard.. ) and i was brought to my counselors office with the nurse. they called my mom and told her what i had been doing, and then they gave me the phone to talk to her. she told me that she had known for a while that i had been cutting and "hadn't gotten around to doing anything about it". fucking awesome. you know that your daughter is hurting herself and you can't muster up enough care to get her help. since that day we have never talked about it. i only finally got help because the school told my mom that she needed to get me help.


i don't know really why all this anger is coming up now and why i'm just discovering it, but i feel like i'm mourning the loss of this relationship with her that i thought i had. i realize that it was all a lie. since my dad was "all bad" she had to be "all good". my dad isn't "all bad" at all.

i'm just so angry, and sad that i'll never feel same way about my mom again.

i think i have to do a lot of working through this before i can ever think about talking to my mom about this. i don't even know if it's worth it because she obviously does not have the capacity to hold my feelings with me. i wonder if it's worth it, if i should just get to a place of peace on my own. i doubt that place exists though if i have to go on living this lie of a relationship with her.

she thinks we have a great relationship. she has no fucking clue how fucked up i am because of all this. she has no idea that i have a constant voice in my head that is "checking" to make sure that people don't think i'm crazy, that i'm not wrong, that what i'm doing/feeling is okay because growing up nothing was okay. i had no model of healthy emotions.

blerg.

I was able to forgive her, mostly, for two reasons -- one was more philosophical, and the other more pragmatic.

First, it became clear to me that I didn't have any choice. There is a line Jack Kornfield uses a lot when he talks about this: "Forgivness is giving up all hope of a better past." These things happened. They are what they are. A lot of anger is fear and aversion -- a wish that somehow things are different. That might be a current situation, and in many cases it's something that happened long ago. Holding on to that was costing way too much -- it had, in one way or another, damaged relationships with people who are important to me, messed up my career, and put me on a path of self-destructive behavior. I had gone into therapy basically as a last chance -- I figured there was little risk in trying it, if it didn't work out I could still kill myself.

People tend to think that forgiveness is something you do for the other person. It isn't. It's something you do for yourself. People also think that forgiveness means saying what the other person did was ok. It's not. It's really meant to be a process for letting go of the hurt and the pain so you can heal and move forward. My words here are inadequate -- I'll find some links and writings that help explain it better.

The second thing that helped was my going through an effort to try and understand what my mother -- and father, for that matter -- were experiencing. I was literally struggling to understand why somebody could do the cruel and hurtful kinds of things she did. What I came to was that she and my dad were married at a pretty young age because she was pregnant with me. While they were apparently close and had a relationship of some kind -- it wasn't a casual encounter -- it's never been clear to me that without the stimulus of her unplanned pregnancy they would have married. I think maybe yes, maybe no. The truth of the matter is that I don't know - neither of them ever talked in any detail about how they met, or their relationship. This was at a time and place when such a thing was the apex of scandal. From what little I was ever able to find out, she paid for it in many different ways. Her father, in particular, was very judgmental and punishing. To make a long story shorter, they both brought a lot of pain, anger, frustration, and regret into the marriage. It made for a difficult relationship for them. My dad tended to internalize of lot of it, but mom's emotions were always close to the surface. I, and my brothers, got caught up in a lot of that emotion.

The understanding I was able to develop helped me develop some compassion for them. They were young people, in a situation they didn't want, trying to do the best they could while struggling with their own fear and anger. Maybe things were a little like that for your parents. In hindsight, I wish a lot had been different. But it wasn't. And finding a way to let go of that regret was what allowed me to finally put some distance between my sense of self and the pain and guilt. What she did was wrong, even cruel. But if nothing else, I have a choice as to how I respond and how I move forward in my life.

When I read your story, my heart went out to you. It sounds like a very difficult environment in which to grow up, and these incidents are incredibly painful. And I also appreciate the pain and the difficulty involved in trying to work through it in therapy. It takes time and work, but it can get better.

I don't know what the future holds for your relationship with your mother. But, like other things, you don't have to decide today how you're going to feel about something tomorrow or in the future. Try to let all that be, and focus on coming to terms with what you're grappling with right now. It's going to take time. You may decide there is a way to let go of the anger and restore the love you felt. But you might not. Trust me when I tell you that if you work on it, your heart will know when -- and if -- the time is right.

Good luck.

"Forgivness is giving up all hope of a better past." These things happened. They are what they are. A lot of anger is fear and aversion -- a wish that somehow things are different. That might be a current situation, and in many cases it's something that happened long ago. Holding on to that was costing way too much

this is such a great way to look at it. i'm trying to see it this way. i can't change what happened. continuing to dwell on everything is not going to make any impact on events that have already taken place. so much easier said than done, but i know holding on to all this anger is doing nothing good for me, my relationships, my anything.

People also think that forgiveness means saying what the other person did was ok. It's not.

thank you for saying this. as stupid as it sounds, i didn't really realize that forgiving her doesn't mean saying that what she did (or didn't do..) is okay. it's not okay. i understand this intellectually, but as i'm writing this my brain is still screaming at me saying that if i stop being angry with her, it means i'm condoning (sp?) what happened.

you don't have to decide today how you're going to feel about something tomorrow or in the future.

if i had a nickel for every time my therapist has told me this (about a million different issues), i'd be fucking rich as hell. i'm not good at just sitting with emotions (not sure if any of us are) and working through them. I want to know what the end result is, what's the decision so i can move on from there. i guess it's a way to get around working through stuff if i can just make an all or nothing decision and move on. probably not the best plan in the long run.


as far as how i'm doing today.. not great. i've been at work for 2.5 hours and all i've done is listen to my voicemails, send a couple emails, and stare blankly at my computer. oh, and type this. i can't get out of my head and it's really hard knowing i can't go home and drink a bottle of wine to escape from all of this.

as far as how i'm doing today.. not great. i've been at work for 2.5 hours and all i've done is listen to my voicemails, send a couple emails, and stare blankly at my computer. oh, and type this. i can't get out of my head and it's really hard knowing i can't go home and drink a bottle of wine to escape from all of this.

That sounds ok for a Friday morning. Being 100% productive is impossible. We're humans, not robots!