YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

I am overwhelmed and tired and at the end of my rope. I am sick of all the tension and the fighting with my wife. It started before I even got out of bed this morning and lasted for 2-3 hours before I could finally pry myself out of the house. I am sick of feeling so worthless and guilty all of the time. It doesn't matter what I do - anything that I try to do to have compassion for myself and take care of myself gets undone when we fight. Her feelings are so intense and so important - she is so angry and so hurt and so anxious - and anything that I do that involves trying to acknowledge my own hurt and my own feelings and what I need somehow can't compete. In fact, it's threatening to her. I feel so stuck - I feel so emotionally bullied and manipulated and tortured, yet she feels exactly the same. How can we both be victims? I don't want to be a victim, but I don't want to hurt her more/again. I feel like I have a hard time getting my therapist and my therapy group to understand - they keep telling me that I need to leave when emotions escalate to that point and I can't take it, rather than hang in there until I collapse into a sobbing heap because she won't ever let up once she gets going. They keep telling me that I seriously need to consider moving out for a while and maybe if we're not around each other so much we will have the space to come to our senses. Except that is exactly what she is so afraid of - being abandoned, being rejected - and if I did that it would make things worse, and there would be no going back from that. And nobody seems to understand that.

And I am afraid that nobody else will ever accept/love me/help me get my needs met anyway, and I am afraid of being alone for the rest of my life. I have no real friends anymore. I have some people I have gotten close to from my therapy group but I can't rely on them anymore because my wife got extremely jealous and angry when I was communicating with some of the women in the group, even though it was very helpful and very supportive to me. 2-3 times a week at least we are having serious meltdowns at home - it is affecting my physical, mental and emotional health tremendously - and I have NOBODY TO TALK TO ABOUT IT AT ALL. Group for 2 h once a week and therapy for 50 min every two weeks and THAT'S IT. I have to keep it all locked up in my head all the time and I have no time to process it and it is making me crazy. I feel like I am getting memory problems because of it - I can get so agitated and so depressed and sad and upset and angry and frustrated when we fight, and two days later its all a foggy haze and I can't even remember/understand what she was yelling at me or crying about. Not that it matters - it's all the same underlying stuff over and over again. We are both really angry and upset with each other, but we both love each other and we also both are really afraid of what would happen if we weren't together. It's really, really unfair, but the problem is, it's not like its good for her, but bad for me - it sucks for her too. I don't understand what the way out of this is, but I am really tired and I don't want to do this anymore. I'm the most depressed and frustrated and anxious as I have ever been before, and that's saying something. And everything that I have tried to do in the past to change things and take care of myself and my needs has been WRONG WRONG WRONG and made things worse - because my needs are SHIT and I am SHIT and I don't deserve to have them met. Of course, she doesn't say that, but it's all about HER needs and HER pain and suffering and everything that I have done to her.

I totally understand what you're going through. It's really great that you are in therapy and hopefully if you stick with it, things will get better on a day to day basis. It sounds like we are going through some of the same things. It's SO draining to be constantly fighting and crying with your partner! One thing that has been helping me lately is listening to Buddhist talks in podcast form (Zencast). I don't know how you lean religiously, but religion aside, from a mindful, compassionate perspective it is really nice to hear. I hope things go more smoothly for you this week. Keep on fighting. You are important and your needs are important even if your partner fails to recognize that. My heart goes out to you.

Thanks for the kind words, LittleMissNoName. Done the Zen thing (and try to do it on a regular basis). I have lots of podcasts, audiobooks and meditations that I stick in my earholes on a regular basis. I was enjoying Ajahn Brahm's Dharma talks for a while, as well as a (now defunct) podcast called Zen is Stupid. I haven't specificallly listened to Zencast, but maybe I will keep it in mind for when I get bored with some of the other things that I have at the moment. I actually fall asleep to a hypnosis/relaxation mp3 my therapist gave me every night, and I am listening to self-esteem hypnosis tapes in his office. I go to yoga every Sunday morning and try to sit still and meditate for a few minutes every day (it is very hard to walk the balance between peaceful meditation and not sliding continuously into obsessive negative thoughts, though. Some days my skill is much worse than others).

Many days I can walk a balance that feels OK. Not good, but not horrible. It is just very precarious, so it doesn't take much (an emotional outburst from my wife, an extra dose of work stress, a realization that I am yet again overwhelmed with too much to do), that causes me to crash down. I feel like I am struggling to keep afloat most of the time - just to get back to neutral instead of painful. The idea of reaching the shore (i.e. having things actually feel GOOD) seems so out of reach, because it's just taking so much effort not to drown.

I think I also have a mental script that pushes back against meditation, relaxation, mindfulness, and a lot of the self-help that suggests that situations aren't inherently stressful or bad and that I am just "choosing" to suffer, and I can choose to not interpret and experience situations in that way. I think all at once I feel like that is unfair "blaming the victim" sort of stuff, but I am also afraid that if I decide that I am OK with something that feels bad, then I am resigning myself to that thing never getting better, and that means I have to live with it for the rest of my life. It's like giving up on my needs/wants/preferences, just as other advice is telling me that I have to be assertive and be kind to myself and stand up for my needs/wants/preferences. Lots of confusion and contradiction.

They keep telling me that I seriously need to consider moving out for a while and maybe if we're not around each other so much we will have the space to come to our senses. Except that is exactly what she is so afraid of - being abandoned, being rejected - and if I did that it would make things worse, and there would be no going back from that. And nobody seems to understand that.

Have you ever moved out for awhile? Ever ever? (Indulge my optimism for a sec.) I know you think that it will make things worse with your wife, but it might not. We can't predict the future. And even if things did get worse, how much worse can things be than they are now? Your situation sounds horrible and torturous. It's the stuff of nightmares. Do you want to wind up physically harming each other? Where do you draw the line?

but I am really tired and I don't want to do this anymore. I'm the most depressed and frustrated and anxious as I have ever been before, and that's saying something.

Please listen to yourself. *You don't want to do this anymore.* So don't. It's ok to want to do something different, to change, to be afraid of that change. Life is a big messy mess of change. We just have to roll with it the best we can, staying as emotionally and physically healthy as possible. Be kind to yourself by living the life that is best for YOU.

Stina wrote:

They keep telling me that I seriously need to consider moving out for a while and maybe if we're not around each other so much we will have the space to come to our senses. Except that is exactly what she is so afraid of - being abandoned, being rejected - and if I did that it would make things worse, and there would be no going back from that. And nobody seems to understand that.

Have you ever moved out for awhile? Ever ever? (Indulge my optimism for a sec.) I know you think that it will make things worse with your wife, but it might not. We can't predict the future. And even if things did get worse, how much worse can things be than they are now? Your situation sounds horrible and torturous. It's the stuff of nightmares. Do you want to wind up physically harming each other? Where do you draw the line?

One of the most confusing things is the unpredictability and inconsistency. It's like it is the stuff of nightmares 40-50% of the time, and then the rest of the time it is OK and occasionally even good for a short time. But it changes by the day sometimes. After two weeks of absolute hell, the last 3-4 days have been relatively calm and pleasant. On one hand, it is nice to be able to catch my breath, but on the other hand, I am still afraid to bring up things that I need to address with her because I don't want to destroy the peace. I did make it about me for a little while tonight, talking about some things that I am struggling with at work and she listened and was supportive. So that was nice and made me feel kind of good. But also confused. I know that if I talk about things that aren't OK with us, or things that she is doing/not doing that I don't like, then we will start another cycle of fighting.

I have never tried moving out, even for a little while. There are a whole lot of reasons why I am afraid to. And I am trying to work on understanding all of them. I have been trying to be more kind and compassionate to myself and I am really trying to understand all of the underlying scripts and judgments that have made me this way. I have really, really shitty to non-existent emotional and practical boundaries, and neither does my wife. It is a really shitty way to live.

Stina wrote:

but I am really tired and I don't want to do this anymore. I'm the most depressed and frustrated and anxious as I have ever been before, and that's saying something.

Please listen to yourself. *You don't want to do this anymore.* So don't. It's ok to want to do something different, to change, to be afraid of that change. Life is a big messy mess of change. We just have to roll with it the best we can, staying as emotionally and physically healthy as possible. Be kind to yourself by living the life that is best for YOU.

I feel like I have been trying to do things differently for a long time, and some of them work a little bit, and some of them come back to bite me in the ass in the worst way. I am trying really hard to own my shit, and not blame everything on my wife, or my parents, but also not let other people off the hook for the way they behaved in the past or the way they are behaving now. It is a really tough balance to play, and it is hard to confront hard truths about things about myself that I want to change without being mean and punitive and judgmental to myself. I feel like it's selfish and irresponsible and hurtful to others to live the life that is best for me, and I feel like if I try to do that I will just end up miserable and alone anyway. I know logically that's not true, but it is a deep fear and a belief that has deep roots.

One of the most confusing things is the unpredictability and inconsistency. It's like it is the stuff of nightmares 40-50% of the time, and then the rest of the time it is OK and occasionally even good for a short time. But it changes by the day sometimes. After two weeks of absolute hell, the last 3-4 days have been relatively calm and pleasant. On one hand, it is nice to be able to catch my breath, but on the other hand, I am still afraid to bring up things that I need to address with her because I don't want to destroy the peace. I did make it about me for a little while tonight, talking about some things that I am struggling with at work and she listened and was supportive. So that was nice and made me feel kind of good. But also confused. I know that if I talk about things that aren't OK with us, or things that she is doing/not doing that I don't like, then we will start another cycle of fighting.

How's it been the past week? Still yo-yoing? I can understand the comfort you get from the occasional short good times, but are they worth the price of the nightmarish times? The unpredictability concerns me -- always having to be on your toes, never knowing what to expect. That's not a good way to live. :-/ If it's always bad, then you can get used to that, and be comfortable there. But that grey area... Damn that grey area! It's a curse in and of itself.

I have never tried moving out, even for a little while. There are a whole lot of reasons why I am afraid to. And I am trying to work on understanding all of them. I have been trying to be more kind and compassionate to myself and I am really trying to understand all of the underlying scripts and judgments that have made me this way. I have really, really shitty to non-existent emotional and practical boundaries, and neither does my wife. It is a really shitty way to live.

Yeah, I'm getting the sense about the shitty way you're living... Cut yourself some slack - you're trying to understand a lot of things right now and that's good. Small steps are good. As long as they're in the right direction -- towards a better life for YOU.

I feel like it's selfish and irresponsible and hurtful to others to live the life that is best for me, and I feel like if I try to do that I will just end up miserable and alone anyway. I know logically that's not true, but it is a deep fear and a belief that has deep roots.

Yes, living the life that's best for you is probably selfish. But it's YOUR LIFE. I don't know, maybe I've been single for too long, but being alone and miserable is a lot more worthwhile than being miserable with a S.O. who isn't helping matters, which is where you are. And in your situation, there are two miserable people. If you move out for awhile, maybe there's only one miserable person and it's not YOU. And if it is? Then you can know that you're not dragging someone else down with you into your misery. And that's actually quite unselfish.

In conclusion, I saw this the other day and thought of you: Stop being afraid of what could go wrong and think of what could go right.

How's it been the past week? Still yo-yoing? I can understand the comfort you get from the occasional short good times, but are they worth the price of the nightmarish times? The unpredictability concerns me -- always having to be on your toes, never knowing what to expect. That's not a good way to live. :-/ If it's always bad, then you can get used to that, and be comfortable there. But that grey area... Damn that grey area! It's a curse in and of itself.

It's been OK, which is to say it's been calm. I have been struggling with my own stress at work and with other things, and she has been struggling with her own stuff, and there have been no major eruptions between us - but part of that is because I have been shutting down rather than getting upset when she does something that bothers me. I still am struggling to figure out a way to have boundaries and not just tolerate without making everything blow up. I feel like I am just trying to keep my head above water with how exhausted I am and how many things I have on my plate. It is calm but not OK - I am not getting my needs met and I need help and love and support, but I am too afraid to ask because I can't afford to let the peace go.

Yeah, I'm getting the sense about the shitty way you're living... Cut yourself some slack - you're trying to understand a lot of things right now and that's good. Small steps are good. As long as they're in the right direction -- towards a better life for YOU.

Thanks. Sometimes the steps seem really small and two steps forward, one step back. And I still don't really know what hte right direction is. Sometimes I just feel like I'm running away from what feels like the wrong direction but not towards anything. Or I'm still moving towards where I'm "supposed" to be rather than where I want or need to be.

Yes, living the life that's best for you is probably selfish. But it's YOUR LIFE. I don't know, maybe I've been single for too long, but being alone and miserable is a lot more worthwhile than being miserable with a S.O. who isn't helping matters, which is where you are. And in your situation, there are two miserable people. If you move out for awhile, maybe there's only one miserable person and it's not YOU. And if it is? Then you can know that you're not dragging someone else down with you into your misery. And that's actually quite unselfish.

The thing is, I'm really lonely. I don't even really feel like I have friends I can talk to any more, and when I get close to people (like from my therapy group), something happens to make me create distance again. I really need to learn how to get my needs met from others and connect to them, and I'm afraid if I'm alone I'm going to become even more isolated and stuck.

In conclusion, I saw this the other day and thought of you: Stop being afraid of what could go wrong and think of what could go right.

Thanks for that and thanks for thinking of me. I've actually been trying to apply that with some degree of success in some areas of my life, but it is hard to apply to really core things about me and my happiness. But I'll keep trying. Thank you very much.

I'm not going to lie and say I've read everything in this post. The seemingly endless paragraphs are overwhelming to my eyes at the moment. Please forgive me if my thoughts seem jumbled...I've kinda checked out for the day (I work overnights and just got home).


I'm also not going to lie and say I think you should stay in this situation. I read that you're lonely, but how torturous is it to live with someone, someone with whom you ache to be normal and loving with, but the damage be irreparable and you're constantly reminded, day in and day out, of this? How does this make it easier for you? You're lonely, and you're stressed by living situations that you cannot control.


You're also tremendously lonely, because I suspect that this has created a huge emotional toll, making you unsociable and probably detached from the friends you did have. When you cut yourself off from something that drains you, albeit it may be a comfort to still be with her (change is scary, absolutely), you may find yourself reaching out to other people more often to pick you up. Maybe your support group friends could help you move and spend time with you as you transition? The more you are around this, I know it will make it difficult to socialize with you. I mean this with ALL due respect, and I apologize if it comes off as harsh, but these things, these intense, emotional situations, bleed out into our other areas of life. I'm in a similar situation (I'm not married, but I live with a horrible, horrible man, sharing a lease) and it's impacted my job performance/social life. I know this.


You two may love each other, but you can still have that love and not have it be....right, I guess? Love is a touchy thing - you may love another, but spending the rest of your life with that person may not be the right thing to do. This is hurting you more than helping you, and you seem to know it but are afraid to admit it.


That does NOT mean this is forever. You could do a trial separation, and maybe you can find a place in a populated apartment complex. While these situations are populated by college students, there are some realtors who rent out large houses as separate rooms and all of you share a kitchen/laundry room/living room. This may be good for your depression, because you won't be alone and you'll be forced to socialize. People will say something if they don't see you leave your room for days at a time.


You could also schedule "date nights" or "talk nights" where you meet up and date, chat, whatever - while you're separated. See how things are going for both of you.



Regardless of what I say, you know deep in your heart what's best for you and I think you're afraid of that truth. It's the truth for a reason, though, no matter how scary....but somehow, someway, the truth prevails no matter how hard we fight it, and while it hurts in the process, things improve if we let the truth run it's course.

Thanks fifthsonata. Things get better or more stable for a while, then they blow up again. I think what I really need is more connections, more friends, more support so I don't feel so alone and isolated when things blow up at home.

Some asshole keyed my car this weekend, and I am incredibly buried at work, have a lot of legal/financial family issues that I need to take care of ASAP, and on top of it all I am exhausted and only got 4 or so hours of sleep left. Running on coffee and fumes.

Can't believe someone keyed your car! What a jerk!

The moving out idea is really scary but it might be something to consider. After all of my battles with my boyfriend, all the heartache and blow-ups, we have finally decided to try living separately and have agreed that he will move out. I was the one who had been so insanely resistant to the idea and was desperately clinging to our relationship (or the idea of it) out of fear of being abandoned but I finally surrendered to the idea and as soon as I did an enormous weight lifted from my shoulders and we have been getting along really well ever since. We decided that is worth it to try living apart rather than see our relationship completely fall apart and end up hating each other. He hasn't moved out yet but hopefully it will go as smoothly as this transitional period is going... I'm still afraid to do it but it feels like the right thing to do and it feels like I finally have my best friend back.

Didn't mean to come to your thread and start talking about myself but I thought it might help to share a little.