YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

Being able to set boundaries without being an abrasive jerk is one of the things I'm trying to work on.

Over the past few months I've been trying to take part in this performance group. One of my friends invited me to try out for their fall show -- I had a supporting role as a high-strung bride-to-be and for the most part had a great time. A few members of the group are in open or polyamorous relationships, and the way they handled this aspect of their life upset me. One guy in particular was a casual, platonic acquaintance of mine prior to my involvement with the group, and around the time I auditioned he and his wife had started opening up their relationship. Since he had issues with boundaries in the past, I minimized my contact with him and eventually we stopped speaking. During my time in the play, another member of the cast had struck up a friendship with me and then casually informed me that he and his wife were poly, and I found myself talking about how much I loved my fiance and how happy I was in my (monogamous) relationship. I also started keeping my distance from the other members of the cast who were in open or poly relationships.

I've auditioned for two other shows with them and haven't made the cut. While there were good reasons why I didn't get cast (I wasn't as well-prepared as I should have been for one of them and was coming off of a bad week), I also know that I felt uncomfortable around my former casual acquaintance and that our bad blood may have soured my chances. I suspect that because of the way I handled myself after I learned about the status of his relationship with his wife I may have completely burned that bridge.

My ability with setting boundaries has been a huge issue in my life. I come from a mildly dysfunctional home and have experienced non-physical sexual abuse. Because I was seen as a "smart kid" I tended to strike up friendships with adults because they were more on my intellectual level. Two of those adults in turn had explicit sexual conversations with me, and one of them engaged in some non-sexual physical contact that I find disturbing when I look back on it. Additionally, my mother's sister would manipulate and emotionally abuse me to take attention away from her drug habit. I never really had the language to tell these people "I'm uncomfortable with this conversation" or "Please don't say/do that, it upsets me", so I just went with it, and that still haunts me to this day.

When other kids picked on me, my mom and my teachers told me to ignore them and they would go away. I've taken that advice into adulthood with me, and if someone seems unsafe to me I cut them out of my life and ignore them when I see them. This works one-on-one, but I find that if I ignore them when I see them in groups with people I do like, I come off as standoffish. (In spite of what my mother has told me, I don't put on airs when I ignore those I don't like. I just behave as though they're not present. Sometimes I've lowered my head to my chest to show that I'm not a snob, I'm just uncomfortable.) Because of the sexualized manner in which people saw and interacted with me as a kid, I know I have particular issues around those who are open about their non-mainstream sexuality, are attracted to women, and may potentially not recognize the boundaries I put up if I behave nicely.

I'm sorry this is really long and incoherent. I'm dealing with some of these issues with my shrink, but every so often things get stirred up again and I have to think about this. I don't want to put my life on hold because some jerks have a hard time taking rejection, but I also don't want my friends to think I'm an asshole because I choose not to acknowledge those people who don't hear "no". Any advice?

First, kudos that you recognize this as an issue. I was also in the same boat - except my eccentricities were written off because I was an "artsy" kid. You combine that with "book smarts", and you have a recipe for someone lacking in certain social abilities. I heard this on one of Paul's podcasts and I loved it - think of it this way; you're backtracking to pick up some skills you didn't learn along the way to adulthood.

What works for me is being completely honest with people. It usually catches them off guard and most all of them appreciate the honesty. Some of my social issues include being too blunt and some people don't know how to take it - so when I realize I've hurt them unintentionally, I say something like this:

"I see I've hurt your feelings. I want to apologize, it was not my intention - I am a blunt person and it comes off as rude more often than I'd like to admit."

Sometimes it's a hurt to my pride because things can escalate. I have to tuck my tail between my legs from time to time.

BUT, the best part of all of this is that you can LEARN these skills. It takes time, but that's the joy of being a "smart kid;" you can learn these skills. You can also learn when to recognize if your social deficiencies are in play.

So, with your poly friends, I'd advise you go back to the friend you hurt and apologize. I imagine he shared the poly aspect of himself with you in hopes of furthering your friendship and was hurt by your statements - often, as adults, there are certain things we tolerate and do not tolerate. I, for one, don't tolerate someone who makes excuses for everything to avoid conflict. When I come across someone like that, I keep them at an arm's length. It sounds like your poly friend chose to do the exact same thing - he tested the waters and didn't like the waves. He might've shared this with his other poly friends and they might've done the same (further emphasized by your distance).

Go back and apologize - tell him his confession caught you off guard. If you hurt his feelings, you didn't mean to - you respect his decision to be poly. You already made it clear you're monogamous, so no need to say it again - maybe include you haven't met any/many poly people and didn't know how to react appropriately (if that's true). You can apologize to the other poly people in the group, but I suspect when they see you with him they may come over and chat as well (wouldn't hurt for you to strike up a convo with them, too!). Think of this as one piece of their whole identity - it doesn't represent their entire personality.


My overall thoughts are just honesty - the people worth your time are the ones who accept the apology.

Would you be comfortable staying in this group? Even if you patched things up with them, can you handle being with people like that without it being awkward? They aren't going to change their lifestyle, but even if they quit discussing it around you, will it still bug you?

Maybe you can find a similar kind of performance group somewhere else. You shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable.

Thanks for responding.

Here's the thing...the folks in poly/open relationships are a small percentage of the group, and I don't expect them to change for me. What I find upsetting is hanging out with the men who (a) are poly/in open relationships and (b) have expressed their attraction to me. (There are two other guys in the group who are in open relationships -- one is a friend of mine who isn't attracted to me and who I feel safe hanging out with, and the other is a guy I haven't worked with directly but who's an advocate for "nontraditional domestic relationships", has made media appearances for his advocacy, etc.)

I see polyamory as an orientation, and it's one I don't have. My problem with the two guys in question is that they've expressed an interest in me and I've had to repeatedly make clear that I'm not interested in them. One of the guys has met my boyfriend and the other guy implied that I should loosen up. Because of my background I get a little twigged when men repeatedly express their interest in me, even after I've politely declined. I don't know if they don't hear me (or pretend not to hear me) or if I need to more explicitly state my case.

In spite of the sketchy people I've known since I was a kid, I was raised to be nice, and I don't want to hurt people's feelings by repeatedly saying no...but when someone expresses his attraction to me over and over again, even after I tell him no, I tend to cut him out of my life. What makes this particular situation awkward is that a lot of people I know and like are ALSO in this group, and I would like to keep seeing/working with them, but I don't want them to think I'm a snob because I keep my distance from these two dudes. I also know that there are guys like this, who don't hear or who openly ignore social boundaries, everywhere, and that even if I left this group and started working with another one I could end up in a similar situation.

I know this sounds confusing. I've been thinking about this so much that it feels like the cerebral equivalent of a pebble in my shoe. :-/

I also was raised to be nice, too, and that can be a problem. Be true to yourself above all. I am sensing from your description that these people are not respecting your boundaries (which you clearly set when you politely said no) and now they are now engaging in manipulative behavior to get what they want from you. Forgive me if I'm overstating the case. What I mean to say is that if you are feeling uncomfortable, respect that feeling in your gut and get away from these people. Now.

When it comes down to it, it's pretty simple: Someone has expressed interest in you that you're not interested in. Happens all the time to a lot of people, and it's usually not a big deal. The rest (the whole poly thing) is just details. That said, it's always easier to be on the outside looking in. It's hard to have the same clarity when you're in the middle of it.

My hometown (a more-liberal-than-most-of-its-residents-even-realize city in the Upper Midwestern US) had a fairly large, active, visible poly community, so I've hung out with them. Been friends with some of them. I even see the logic of their approach to sexuality -- it strikes me as completely rational to divorce emotional affection from physical affection. I almost envy it in the same way I envy bisexuality. To me, it makes no rational sense to limit my own physical affection to those whose genitals are different from mine. I have no moral objections to bisexual/homosexual behavior, but I seem neurologically hardwired to have no interest in participating in it. I like chicks, I'm not interested in dudes, and there's nothing I can do about it.

Same thing with polyamory: It makes complete rational sense to me as a sexual lifestyle, even more so than my own neurologically-hardwired lifestyle of serial monogamy. I didn't choose not to be poly, I'm just not. Period. Nothing I can do about it.

But I've noticed polyamorous people often have a frustrating tendancy that gays and bis don't have: They seem to assume that everyone is a closet and/or repressed poly, and people with more mainstream/traditional sexual lifestyles are just in denial about it. And maybe that makes them a little less likely to take "no" for an answer. Maybe they think they're doing the rest of us a favor by, I dunno, trying to free us from the shackles of opressive patriarchal sexuality or something. That doesn't make it okay, but maybe that's what's going on in their heads.

My poor friend me, I'm nodding along with your comment! I'm really afraid of getting into details about these guys, but I will say the following: both of them are in unhappy marriages and have decided to "open up" their current marriages. I sense there's an element of them being out of the closet and being excited about this newfound facet of their personality. The other two guys -- one of whom is my friend and the other of whom is out as a poly guy but generally seems respectful -- have come to terms with their orientation and are more respectful of those who are monogamous.

The problem I'm having within myself is that by freezing the two guys who are less respectful or conscientious about boundaries out of my life, I am afraid that I appear to the other members of the group as though I don't play nice with others. I don't want everyone to think I'm a b!tch or a snob by basically ignoring those guys in larger social situations, but I also want to be able to hang out with the group because most of them are good people. I don't want to be burdensome by causing big social problems either way, and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You know? It's a complicated problem.