YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

I've had a hard time making close friends my whole life. Lots of acquaintances, a few closer friends, but very few that I have ever been able to absolutely be myself around. My wife of 13 years is the closest friend I have ever had, but over the years as we have faced stress and strain more and more of me has been closed off to her.

I am learning to open up better to my wife and make connections to other people. I became inappropriately involved with another woman a few years ago because we clicked emotionally in a way that was completely surprising and very much needed by me. That situation blew up in my face and the fallout gave me a lot of confusion (I was doing something that not only felt good and represented growth on my part, even according to my therapist, but I found myself falling for this woman and seriously wanting to have a physical affair with her or even leave my wife for her).

Now I am feeling strong emotional connections with people in my therapy group, because that is the main function of the group. However, I am feeling confusion/danger signs as that connection is happening. My wife expressed months ago that she disapproved of me having contact with women from my group outside of group, even though everyone in the group texts/calls each other for support. I agreed with her that it is not appropriate for me to meet one-on-one with other women outside of group. I understand her concern and jealousy due to my previous emotional infidelity and where it led, but I don't agree that texting is inappropriate.

I have gotten close to two people from my group - one man and one woman. I have been texting a lot with the woman lately, even though I know that my wife would disapprove. I'm not flirting with her or anything - it is friendly and platonic, but more importantly, it is helpful and supportive to both of us. I don't think I would think there was anything wrong with what I was doing if not for the fact that I know that my wife would be upset and jealous. That makes me feel guilty about it, and makes me want to hide it

A few weeks ago my therapist was trying to make a point about emotional connection and did a long exercise of non-verbal communication, and part of that had me lying on the floor with my head on this particular woman's stomach and later on had me giving her a foot massage. It was designed to push buttons, I think, but at the same time that I found it really nice and enjoyable, there was discomfort because I knew that even though what was happening was platonic, my wife would be threatened and jealous and enraged by it (and the therapist knows it).

Basically, I am still in love with my wife and I am trying really hard to sort out what I want and need in life. But at the same time, I still have obsessive romantic fantasizes about the woman from two years ago, and now the closeness with the woman from group has me imagining a life with her. Nothing I would act on, but it is awkward and confusing. It's like when I feel that emotional closeness and contact with a woman who is of a certain age and has certain physical and personality and life characteristics, my brain is completely wiring that into potential wife/partner/replacement for my current wife rather than just keeping it at platonic friend. That's scary, because I really enjoy and need the support that I am getting from and giving to this person, and I want to be able to have platonic but emotionally connected friendships with more people (including women), but there's something about the emotional intimacy that feels dangerous at the same time (but I don't know if it's dangerous to me, or I feel like it's dangerous because I am afraid of my wife's reaction to it, and then I am guilty about hiding it because I am afraid of my wife's reaction to it…) cycles and layers of bullshit. I just want to be happy and have healthy relationships.

Can anyone relate to these problems? Relationships are either very distant or so emotionally intimate that they feel inappropriate if they are with a member of the opposite sex?

Upon reading, it sounds like the feelings you're having for the women you're close with (not your spouse) are the result of the intimacy and not necessarily because of the person. If it's not being fulfilled with your spouse, you may inadvertently seek it elsewhere.

Have you thought about taking your wife with you to the support groups? Maybe some marital counseling? Perhaps in a safe environment (with a mediator), you can rebuild emotional intimacy with her.

It wouldn't be appropriate for my wife to come to that therapy group. She actually used to go to a different group with the same therapist, but quit going a while ago. We were in counseling together for about a year without much progress. The counselor as well as our individual therapists say that we need to work on our own issues first before we can repair the relationship. The catch 22 is that I think both of us are finding it hard to fix ourselves while dealing with he other persons shit. And I sometimes (often) think I'm sick of trying. I want to start over with someone else. Sometimes just anyone else, sometimes a specific someone else. And that makes me feel so guilty and ashamed and like I am a horrible piec e of shit.

My wife discovered that I had been texting my female friend from my therapy group the end of last week and got really upset and angry about it, not only because she doesn't like it in the first place, but because I was hiding it from her and was therefore being dishonest about it. I didn't help by panicking and trying to first play it off, and then deleting the texts, which of course made her more angry that I was dishonest and must have had something illicit to hide.

It led to a lot of fighting and a lot of talking over the weekend. She still feels very betrayed by my infidelity of almost two years ago now, and the fact that I still seem to be struggling with our relationship and how committed I am to it. I love my wife and I think she is a great person, but I am tired of so many behaviors that stem from her depression/anxiety/PTSD. I really want things to be better between us - I want to continue to improve myself (and I feel worth it, and I feel like I have made a lot of progress in my internal dialogues as well as my ability to open up and communicate with her and connect with other people as well). However, if I would be happier apart from her or even with someone else, does that make me an evil, shitty person? Sometimes I feel yes, sometimes I feel no.

I think that part of the reason that I was texting with this one friend in particular is that there are some similarities between our situations. There are ways in which she reminds me of my wife (similar abandonment issues), and there are some similarities between my problems and the problems that she describes her husband as having. To my wife, that is a danger sign that I am vulnerable and my friend is vulnerable and there is built-in chemistry to the relationship. She also makes connections with the stripper that I fell for two years ago, although she continually insists that I was being manipulated and mindfucked by her. It is all very humiliating and painful.

weary wrote:However, if I would be happier apart from her or even with someone else, does that make me an evil, shitty person? Sometimes I feel yes, sometimes I feel no.

Irregardless of if you stay in the relationship, technically, being happier away for her (perhaps temporarily) does not make you evil or shitty.

Does your wife internalize anything about your ambiguity about the relationship? Does your wife take responsibility for anything about your ambiguity about the relationship? I think you said she does admit her role in it. I think you wish she would admit a larger role in it, but I think I remember you saying she does admit her role in some of it.

Would your ambiguity about the relationship with your wife even allow you to feel free to be radically honest and radically self-loving/self-nurturing - because the ambiguity would make you less afraid to lose the relationship. To be fair to your wife, radical honesty and radical self-loving/self-nurturing would be more "fair" than secretly confiding in other women, even if there was no chance of it leading to infidelity.

[You are the expert on your own situation. It is easy for me to say "be honest" because I am such a emotional blabber-mouth myself I can't help but be honest.]

I hear what you're saying. The problem is that I'm confused about what I want and need, and what is really my core wants and needs and not trying to please others to avoid conflict or to meet real or imagined expectations. Makes being honest tough when you have a hard time being honest with yourself.

And I am honestly afraid of leaving her or doing something to cause her to leave and ending up miserable and alone, because nobody else would ever want me. I don't want to make the wrong choice. But I don't want to continue to tolerate not having my needs met for the rest of my life either.

I think I remember you saying she does admit her role in some of it.[]

Yes. But you're right, I wish it were more. And she has this way of not taking responsibility or being accountable. She can't help it, she's doing her best. When I screw up, I made a choice. When she does, she can't help it. And I feel like she thinks that if I get mad or think about leaving, it is because I don't love/accept her for who she is, flaws and all. She wants and expects unconditional love. And I feel guilty for thinking that I might not be able to give her that.