YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

In one of the "get to know you" posts, one of the comments (made by BartimusP) said:

just by way of human experience, a lot of what you're feeling is universal (maybe not at the same level but...) and if you can manage to open up, most decent folks will be able to listen and relate to some extent. I find that it's very rare (in fact, I've never experienced it -- and I've become pretty open and willing to share about the dark shit) that a person will pull a Jerry Seinfeld and say something like, "Good luck with alllll that."

Is it actually that common to not be rejected, or at least dismissed, because of your feelings and experiences? I can name off the top of my head half a dozen close friends I've lost because I attempted open up to them. None of these were people I considered heartless or childish, and all of these experiences have happened after the age of 20.

This statement and my subsequent personal observation feels pretty soul crushing. In light of BartimusP's experiences being more or less the polar opposite of mine, it provides a much more thorough explanation of the etiology of my general and social anxiety. A quick mental tabulation of close friends I have partially opened up to VS. how many are still my friends VS. how many I am able to talk fairly openly with is 12-5-1. I would be more excited that I actually have a friend from whom I can seek comfort except we live 6 hours apart and even in the best of circumstances the most I could expect is an outside (but still mentally ill) perspective, and a bit of comic relief. Neither of us is touchy-feely, though I am trying to become comfortable with touch. The specifics of my issues are often above his knowledge base, and his own apathy and exhaustion prevents concerted efforts. I am very thankful for him, but he, even more than I, is a shut-in. We only ever communicate via text (i.e. alphanumeric characters, not specifically 'texting') and that limits the benefit even more.

I just... I want someone to really listen and understand me who isn't paid to do so. I want to not be forced into wearing a facade with everyone I see. I want an actual friend; I want someone to do experience life with, someone to care or support me when I struggle. I want to feel like a goddamned human being. Clearly, I ask for too much. Obviously, avarice, greed, and jealousy permeate my being. There seems no other logical explanation.

I don't think I have any proper advice, but I want you I know that I completely feel you and empathize and you are not alone. It's only natural for a human to want to be heard. I know it is hard to find the right people to listen, I struggle with it myself, but I have to believe that there are people out there. I have trouble making friends and maybe you do too, but we are not hopeless and our feelings are still valid. Your feelings are valid and it is not asking too much to want people to listen. /big hugs

Thank you for sharing, OP.

I am going to offer you a suggestion that is cheesy, a true trope.

But tropes survive because they contain great, evergreen truths. Here goes:

The way to get a friend is to be a friend.

In my experience, the best way to learn to be a friend is (wait for it!) "How to Win Friends and Influence People".

Ready for one more trope? :

"No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care."

For example, I am passionate about turn based strategy games, particularly hex games.

While you may care nothing about the 1996 PS1 game "Allied General", it is my passion.

If you can show a genuine interest in my passion, I am much more likely to take an interest in you.

In fact, it is so important to show a genuine interest in others that it is a time honored tradition to fake such genuineness until it becomes sincere.

In practice

You can practice what I offer in this very thread.

Both kitkat and I have posted here. Why did each of us pick our internet name? Why did we pick our little accompanying photo? If it is important enough for us to post here, it is important to us.

Friendship (which is just another word for "love") is like money or other good karma: there has to be a flow, an in and out. Often we have to give a little friendship, money, time, interest before it flows back to us.

I always try to be warm and friendly, and it's not even funny how "co-narcissistic" I am, to use the terminology from the Rappaport article. But that's probably part of the problem. If nothing else, I mentally equate more friends with more bending over backwards and that keeps me in check.

I expect the worst from people, certainly in a first impression, and undoubtedly anytime thereafter if the setting isn't intimate. Wow. That really has been the story of my life with friends. One on one or in a small group, it's fine, but get more than a handful of people together and I pretty literally get spurned and ignored. I have been shamed any number of times for attempting to follow a friend to another group or setting. Mother fucker.

I have never had a friend. At least not since my brother died (of cancer at 13, I was 11, long story), and that was probably my intent. Somehow I have to build a faith in humanity that has only been cruel.

It certainly doesn't help my cause that I am anhedonic 95% of the time. The very reason my mind crumbled as thoroughly as it did was due to pretending to be happy and content when all I felt was misery and regret. My ability to "fake it til I make it" is hobbled.

When people ask me specific questions, do I lie then too?

"How do you like XX fraternity?" Obviously I don't reply with my actual thoughts of its vapidity and the inanity of the ironically named "brothers." But must I delude myself and this other into thinking I enjoy it?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

I never put myself out there. Well, I never properly put myself out there. Clearly. I am so terrified of failure, of indignation, of rejection followed by hysterics.

I already fake it all the time. My very presence denotes my facade. I can't even cry when I feel the pain building and the urge hovering over me.

I just fail to see hope. I don't understand how others see it. I never do. The best I ever hope for is a distraction from my despondency.

This is so depressing, and I am exhausting to even think about listening to.

It is true that when you open up to someone, especially a friend, you risk them avoiding you. This is what is called being intimate (not in the sexual way as many believe), but in an honest, intellectual/spiritual/emotional way. By opening up, you expose yourself. Most people are uncomfortable with it, and will avoid you, or avoid talking about these things with you because it touches a part of them they are uncomfortable with. So, I would not get overly concerned that the person doesn't seek you out anymore. It's probably, most likely them, and not you (as long as you opened up to them in an appropriate context (one on one, primed them first with "Can I tell you something?" and you were already having some deep conversation).

Knowing all this, I must admit, I too would feel uncomfortable with some things that someone might want to share, but I think it would take something that threatened my own physical well-being for me to shun this person. A lot of people aren't that comfortable and will shun you for much less. We need to teach society to be less judgmental in this way. Notice, I don't think that being judgmental is a bad thing. We do it and we must do it every day. But hell, when someone is bleeding out, that is a call for support and help, not an opportunity to euthanize.

I have some friends over the web who don't contact me much or at all. It hurts. We shared a lot. Ultimately, I figure they have judged that to not have contact with me is better for their own well being. I try hard to not feel bad, for who am I to disagree with their decision. I may not know all behind it, but I trust they made the choice for a good reason, and I do not bother them with frequent communique's, trying to conjure up conversation. I instead, look to be a friend for others. Those who are open to it welcome me in. I too have to question my own involvement with those around me, and decide how much time I will or should give them. We all have to do this. Change is the only constant. Cherish what you have today, for tomorrow it may be gone. You never know when tomorrow is.

It is true what OAK said "No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care." And, the opposite is also true "people will put up with assholes if there is a good reason for doing so, or until they can find someone else who can do just as good a job, but isn't an asshole." I would say the folks at Apple (Executive management) put up with Steve Jobs because he was making them millions in stock valuations, but they also probably wanted to punch him right in the face a lot of the time.

In my life, I have been both the caring person and the asshole. I hope to be more the caring person from here on out, but I may slip into my asshole costume from time to time, just because it feels good.