YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

Hi guys,

I wanted to start this thread here because in my research on covert incest and trying to find answers to my experience I've noticed the majority of literature focuses on either mother son or father daughter incest. I was subjected to covert incest from both my parents, but most intensely from my mother.

I was wondering have any other women on here experienced their mother treating them like a friend/girlfriend/partner and how did what was their experience?

I always knew my mother treated me inappropriately, disrespected my boundaries and hurt me, but I never knew there was a specific term for this. She has told me her every private thought since I was in nappies, shared beds with me whenever she could get a chance, kissed me passionately on the lips whenever she gets the chance (she knows not to now, since I started physically recoiling and wiping her kisses off, as a teen), calls me and fills me in on her gossip, treats me as a gal pal to flirt with men... Tells me "no man will ever love you like I do..." The list goes on.

My mother is still in my life and I love her a lot, but I can't pretend this stuff doesn't exist and I don't find being around her unbearably stressful, awful and that I feel like... Drained and stressed around her. I feel like I've become very distrustful of people and can't have any kind of cuddles/anyone depending on me or proper long term relationship because the thought of being in that position is... Nauseating.

Can anyone relate?

Hi nightcitysong,

I don't have personal experience, but if you haven't already found it, there was an episode about this topic involving a daughter and her mother: Julie L.: Covert Incest Survivor, June 24, 2016.

Welcome to the forum! Oh yeah, this is where the parties start.

rivergirl

Hey River Girl,

Thanks for your reply. I know that episode, it was the first time I heard the term 'covert incest' and it...fucked me up. I'm glad to have this information, but the awakening is overwhelming. Its so...Not talked about! I've read Silently Seduced thanks to Paul.

Hope you're well,

NightCitySong.

I hope you'll be able to connect with others who share your experience, NightCitySong, and begin healing.

Take care of yourself,


rivergirl

I have also experienced covert incest with my mom. She used to playfully slap my butt when I was going upstairs to bed, smother me with over-the-top affection, undress in front of me and my brother. When I was about 10 she made me attempt to insert a tampon to "practice" for when I would get my period. She would make obscene sexual comments to me in front of my friends. She would scrutinize my body. She would elaborate on all of her marital troubles with my step dad (especially the ones concerning their sex life). To this day she sends me overly-gushy text and Facebook messages.

Sometimes it's easy to be around her, but other times, when I can tell she's in a mood to not be told "no" I feel gross. She will cross boundaries and continue to cross them even when I've told her to stop. Sometimes she even gets mad at me for trying to assert that I don't like something she's doing. It's made it hard for me to really know how I feel about any given situation because my feelings have been so outright ignored by her. For example, there was one night where she was putting on this sexual display in the middle of the living room while she, my step dad, and I were all watching TV. She wrapped her arms and a leg around my step dad and started dry humping him and kissing his neck. I told her that I thought what she was doing was gross and that she should stop. She continued and I looked at her dead in the eye and said, "Seriously, mom, stop it. That's unnecessary." She completely flipped out at me declaring that it was her house and she could do as she pleased. She then proceeded to stomp off to the living room and slam the door. After a couple of minutes, when she didn't get a reaction or sympathy from anyone, she came out and said she would talk to me again when I was ready to talk to her like an adult. She then proceeded to go to the kitchen and cut herself and my step dad a piece of cake each from a birthday cake we had made for her. She came back into the living room and sat down and pretended like I didn't exist for the rest of the night.

That is just one example of many instances in which my personal boundaries were subordinated to her desire to act out. She will never see this as part of her sickness, though, because she has quit drinking and taken up doing triathlons and has a good job as an executive in a large insurance agency. Therefore, if anything is wrong, it must be the rest of us that are sick.

MissPi314, it's so easy to see other people's covert incest experiencing as gross; Mine as just normal or not that bad. Casual nudity, casual not closing the door when they had sex, telling me all about her sex life with my biological father and step-dad.

My household growing up was both religious and oddly permissive. R-rated movies (sex okay, violence rarely) on Friday night when I was 8 and fundamentalist Christian church on Sunday with AC/DC on the ride home. The shame and confusion of living in both worlds was (is) a big problem for me.

For me, the covert incest mostly feels like a particularly icky form of enmeshment. She doesn't see anything wrong, because I'm not a separate human being.

Things like talking to me starting at 9 or 10 years old about how if I got pregnant as a teenager, I shouldn't be afraid to tell her and she would love her grand baby. Side note: Was almost 18 when I became sexually active, no pregnancies as of 20 years later.
When I moved home at 29 after my 1st marriage ended in disaster and a week long stay in a mental hospital, invading my privacy while I unpacked to the point of sitting on my bed and having me show her each of my pieces of lingerie, making comments.

Hey everyone - I just want to say thanks for the responses.

Things currently bothering me

- I seem to automatically turn into her "pet" when I see her. I hear myself agreeing with her and pandering to her when inside I'm screaming.
- In work people often ask me why don't I go see my mother, etc and I get massively triggered and never know how to answer without getting sad.
- I freak out all the time she's doing this to my youngest nephew who is 6. She mentioned she was nervous going to a party but it didn't matter because she had "her little man" to "help" her. What the fuck.

I'm mostly consumed by anger.

I have also experienced this, although technically it's with my stepmom, not my biological mom. I'm in healthcare and she frequently tries to solicit information from me under the guise of requesting clinical information. In actuality, it seems that she just wants to describe extremely personal information about her genitals or my dad's. Most recently she described how she looked at her vagina with a mirror and saw something "creamy" so she touched it and then had my dad touch it. She went to the doctor and was told she had a prolapsed bladder. She asked me how common is this problem. So there was absolutely no need to tell me the gratuitous details of the situation in order for her to ask that question. In fact, she didn't need to involve me at all. That could have been a question for her doctor or even Google. Now, as a result, I have a graphic and disgusting visual image in my head that will probably be there until the day I die. I have asked her to stop in the past and she continues to barge right through my boundaries. Two nights ago I set the boundary more firmly than ever before so we will see what happens. I have decided that if she does not stop this behavior, I'm going to start taking more drastic action and consider no contact. The problem is, I love my dad and don't want to lose that relationship.

Other things she has done - walks right in when I'm changing and I can "feel" her watching me; asks to come into the fitting room when I'm trying on clothes; tells me I'm the only person she can trust besides my dad and confides in me like she should a spouse; calls me for emotional support because "you're the only person I can tell this to", etc etc.

All in all, the boundaries have been non-existent. I am getting much better at setting them after years of therapy, but these type of people don't give a shit. I gained a lot of insight from reading Silently Seduced (thanks, Paul!) but I'm finding it hard to find a therapist who is experienced with this type of stuff. The search continues since my longtime therapist just moved out of state.

I feel for you and can definitely empathize. I wish there were more information out there too! I have found myself frantically looking for more information ever since I read that book and there is just nothing out there. We will have to hold space for each other here and support each other. Best to you guys!

Hey folks.

Just wanted to check in on everyone on this post. Hope you're doing OK.