when you don't fit the textbook example of BPD?

[Anne]

Hey you,

I can't give you a third opinion but just my own story. I am also a Borderline Personality that doesn't quite fit the book. Neither did the majority of the Borderliners that I met over the years. You don't have to fit all the criteria for a BPD diagnosis to qualify as such anyhow. And different symptoms wont hit you as hard as they hit others. Also symptoms change, just as a personality changes in "healthy" people, depending on what they do and how they live.

The fact that you seem to see yourself as more stable than others, is a good thing. Congrats. You seem to be smart, perceptive and aware of yourself and your surroundings. In my opinion those are trademarks of people that "make it".

The other good news: you already question your diagnosis. That might prevent you from stepping into the trap of making your sickness your identity. Sometimes it's just so easy to lose myself in rage and childlike behavior, that used to destroy me and my relationships. I hope you find a good therapist that will also see you for what you are and doesn't reduce you to this disorder.

And what I would also like to mention is: people with this disorder are usually highly sensitive and observative. And this makes me, and you probably highly vulnerable to the shit that lifes throws at all of us, but it also makes me who I am - fills my days with creativity and admiration for the little things that other people miss. And I wouldn't want to change that for the world. I feel intense emotions that sometimes stun me on the spot. Not all of those feelings are pleasant, but when I see and feel the beauty of this world, I feel it like I invented it.

But I feel like I should also mention, that what people with BPD should aim for, is stability. Both in life and in their emotions. This is a thing that you need to be taught, because if there is one thing that all Borderliners have in common, it's the fact that they have never learned to deal with their emotions. I highly recommend Dialectical behavior therapy and finding a therapist that you can work with. I am about to finish my therapy and it has changed my life.

I wish you well.
If you have any questions or need someone to talk to, feel free to contact me. I'ld love to know how things work out for you.

[fifthsonata]

Thank you. The diagnosis happened awhile ago, but I still think about it. It's just nice to....well, I'm not one for labels, but when you know what you're working with, it makes things easier to handle, y'know? My therapist was a good guy, but after he 5150'd me I'm fucking scared to go back and see another person. Being sent to a mental hospital was the most humiliating experience I've ever had and the doctors essentially told me I did this to myself. Being treated like a criminal for feeling suicidal, and then being told it's my fault, and other things I don't want to remember.....anyway, I'm scared of them now.

I don't see mental illness as being a hamper or an end-all, so I don't let my flaws run rampant because I can pass it off as "I'm sick." It's just nice to know there are others out there.

[Anne]

That sucks. I'm sorry you had to make that experience. When I meet people like that, I tell myself that I might react the same way, if I wasn't sick myself. I guess people need to ensure themselves that mental illness couldn't hit them like anyone else and that sheer force of will could protect them from it.

I think the chances to meet ignorance like that is lowered when finding a specialist. Like I said, dialectical behavioral therapy is a specialized (usually outpatient) treatment for people with borderline symptoms. So you wouldn't even have to go to the hospital ...

If you don't feel ready for that you should check out the "Skills Training". The Skills Training is part of the dialectical behavioral therapy and teaches you to cope with intense emotions, thoughts, interpersonal problems etc. It might give you some tools to deal with the problems you 're having. It helped me to deal with everyday issues that I wouldn't have been able to face two years ago.

[Jenny Jump]

Hey Fifthsonata,

I've hesitated visiting this part of the forum because I have been diagnosed as BPD before, many times. I've also been hospitalized too--six times since I was 17! You're right, it is a humiliating experience.

After a while I learned that I am not my diagnosis. I'm of the camp that BPD is a diagnosis that clinicians give when they don't know what else to do. They base it on one meeting at least 3 or 4 criteria in the Big Book of Diagnosis, aka DSM4. Here's a link to the criteria: http://www.borderlinepersonalitytoday.c ... /dsmiv.htm

If you think of it that way, many people could be labeled with that! So for many years, I coped the best I could, kept my diagnosis a secret, worked on myself, and still had a nervous breakdown. Come to find out I had been misdiagnosed and am Bipolar 2.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, you're not your diagnosis. You're a human being that struggles with aspects of life. You can do anything you want, become anything you want, and people love you. I've had my share of shitty therapists too, so don't be afraid to go back and find one that works.

I'll be keeping you in my thoughts and send you some positive juju.

[yookincalmey]

I've only read the first line of your post... hahaha.. not that i'm assuming that i know where you were going... i'm gonna read as i go along.

First and foremost i don't think that manipulative is an appropriate word for BPD's. We just don't know how to get our needs met. Manipulation entails forethought, pre-meditation if you will... That is not what's going on in this borderline's head. Perhaps people find you manipulative, but you don't recognize it because, well, you might be one of us just trying to get help with something overwhelming or to just be heard. It's frowned on nowadays to use the term manipulative when discussing bpd's. and i'm not offended, i'm just blunt and alot of times it comes off as bitchy, but i've found if i'm not very clear then i circle an issue and may never get to my point... just like i did right there...

I would ask myself this and sit quietly when you do, and just notice if something comes up from your belly...
Have you had close friends for long periods of time?
Have you had an above average number of relationships in which you fell in love?
Do you get paranoid about people talking behind your back and/or judging you?
Can you fit seemlessly into any group of people?
Do you think that on some level you are able to change someone's emotions, i.e. notice very early on that they are sad, or mad or distant?
Do you play headgames, but maybe don't realize it til it blows up in your face?
Do people say you are clingy? too distant?
When you get depressed, is it really depressed?
Do you feel alone, and like you aren't understood?
Can you think of times that your self-injuring behavior was really frequent? was there anything going on?
you said your work rejected you, i had been completely stable for 14 years, happily married, both successful and was laid off, and it all went to hell... loss of identity and the praise and good feelings that come with leading a large group of people who respect you...
Do you forgive people easily?
What are the reasons that is out of the question to forgive someone?
When you have mood swings (and this is important) is there an event? Meaning, did someone piss you off, or hurt you and then during the time when you are coping with that your moods were erratic? or do they seem to just go willy nilly like the wind?
I have tried to commit suicide several times, and not once was it because someone was leaving and i didn't want that. I think that you've been given some outdated information, and that would be concerning if you got it from one of the docs that diagnosed you. I have attempted or felt unsafe with myself because my emotions are huge. Like a physical reaction kind of huge. and i can't pick out exactly what i'm feeling, its either bad or good. Good is stable, normal, etc. Bad is anger,rage, hurt, sadness, guilt, remorse and a million other things at the same time.
When you hear yourself think, what do you say about yourself?
Can you find a reason for a bad outcome in most situations?
Do you tend to feel guilt about the past and worry/anxiety about the future? Do you feel like you live in the moment, or can you even get there?
Do you have a short attention span?
Do people tell you that you don't read others well?

anyway, all of those questions are something you need to think about and not worry about textbook. there is new criteria out now to diagnose bpd in the DSM5. the best site i know of to learn from a cutting edge standpoint id BPDNEA.org they also have a youtube channel BPDNEA that has much more up to date info then i've seen anywhere. Long talks that the experts in the field give... I would look into that.

Oh also do you binge on alcohol, drugs. food?, etc. Does sex make you feel wanted and needed and loved? Do you want to run away from your life and never come back? When you were a kid did you get mixed messages from a grown up? Example: getting in trouble for fallign down and skinning your knees. erratic behavior memories about a parent, do you get along good with your parents? Do they understand for the most part how you feel? Do you feel understood in general? What are you feeling immediately before you self harm?

[yookincalmey]

shoot, forgot my point. i would definitely get a second third fourth opinion, especially if it doesn't "feel" right. I was misdiagnosed for nearly 20 years. This is what i know to be true. You don't want to be a borderline. I've had the depression label, medication resistant depression level, bi polar label, bipolar 2, anxiety disorders... the second you are labeled as borderline, your range and availability of treatment shrinks. Your friends and loved ones, they will research out of curiosity and there is so much bullshit out about us that, if they find the wrong place to learn how to be supportive... well, in my case, my husband went to the quit walking on eggshells theory. we're divorcing now. that site has a million chat rooms, non for bpds but 5 or 6 regarding how out of control, angry, abusive we are. and rooms for staying or going spouses and how to decide. That site is a big proponent of the tough love method. so, if you are raging and over emotional and can't calm yourself they tell the partner/spouse/family to ignore you , turn thier backs and walk away.

In my opinion, that is so completely irresponsible it makes me crazy. Abandonment can mean emotional abandonment also. So when people no longer listen, and ignore to "de-escalate" a bpd-it is emotional abandonment, and it's dangerous because WE CAN'T regulate our emotions ourselves. So now you can't vent, be calmed, trust anyone... it goes on and on. That is the window when if you've let things build up, you can either, learn ways to calm yourself rapidly, choose imulsive behaviors sex, drugs, food, alcohol, cutting, or you can just decide out of frustration and anger that you can't be understood, respected, talked to honestly, etc. and that is where the suicidal behaviors come in. Its not that they are leaving, its that you are alone. i hope that makes some kind of sense... definitely get another opinon and keep getting them until it makes sense to you. when someone finally told me they were pretty sure i had bpd and told me what it was. it was like the weight of the world was gone...

now the weight of the world is light, cuz everyone left. i have always had a million acquaintances but very few trusted friends/husband. and none can accept this, which triggers the abandonment and causes feelings of worthlessness, anger, frustration, sadness, etc. and severe anxiety all at once like big waves of vibrating energy. i actually will sometimes get in a freezing cold shower and hold ice cubes in my hands over and over til they melt sometimes. it doesn't always work, but its a way to not self-harm for me. the ice gives you a nice burn to focus on, but it doesn't actually burn you. anyway i can take a cold shower with ice cubes and still when i've calmed and get out, my face is beat red and i'm sweating from humongous energy of the emotions i feel.anyway, be careful. if you do settle on BPD, do not accept any treatment other than DBT, of course if it isn't available do CBT or whatever you can get, but DBT is the ticket... and be careful who you tell. lots of misinformation for family friends out there. and you don't want them to find it. trust. truth.

[fifthsonata]

Thank you all for your input here. It's nice to read about it from other points of view. I've researched the subject quite extensively since the hospital, and especially since I actually tried DBT. I'm definitely interested in the final version of the DSM-V. Just from what you guys wrote of your own experiences and knowledge I'm definitely identifying with all of you. When I had written that out I didn't consider the possibility of certain traits be expressed through different outlets rather than the traditional ones.

Perhaps it was my counselor, but when he went through sessions of DBT with me, it felt incredibly insulting to my intelligence. I mean, I am fully aware of what other people do to deal with their emotions, but what those people do was never able to tame the wave of rollercoaster feelings in my head. Trying to "be in the moment" just pissed me off even more, and the other things we went through felt as if the counselor made the assumption I had no idea what a coping skill even was. I'm fully aware, it was just never enough.


So, now I pose this question - what did you guys get out of your own DBT experience?

[Jazz and blues]

I'm about to start EMDR therapy. A really wonderful Psychiatrist, recommended it for my BPD.

[Jamous]

fifthsonata-
I have only been to 2 DBT group sessions (besides the ones when I was hospitalized) and so far I basically feel similar to what you explained. It does feel insulting to my intelligence and I think part of that has to do with me feeling I already have a ton of insight (i imagine a lot of BPD people do) as far as my problems and 'thinking errors' go. I get the overall concept of DBT and how it has a possibility to help, but at the same time the concepts seem kind of ridiculous- almost 'too simple' or something?

I always tell my therapist "I KNOW what's right- I just don't DO what's right". It's because I do have the knowledge and can think pretty logically, but my feelings/emotions override my logical/healthy thoughts. It's easier for me to trust my feelings- because I feel them so intensely- than it is to contradict those feelings and go with what is usually the healthier alternative. Acting on my feelings usually gets me in trouble, so I have to learn to 'slow things down' and try to recognize that my feelings may not be accurate (valid-yes, accurate-maybe not). It sounds kinda crazy I'm sure, to someone who can't relate, but I often have to ask myself if my desired/impulse reaction to a situation is really 'just my Borderline talking'.

The DBT process does come across as childish or something to me, because the steps seem so basic- so 'easy'. Because I'm Borderline- I've been trying to remind myself that I can react in 'childish'/inappropriate ways and maybe that's why I must begin with the basics. I've been able to recognize more frequently that my mind AKA my feelings (haha) can be 'tricking' me in a way. I have to say that I've probably learned the most from just reading books about BPD. I don't know if this is making any sense?

I did actually enjoy the DBT group when I was in the hospital- especially being able to relate to others' experiences. The explanations of how to work DBT made a lot of sense to me. I could see how they'd be helpful and would become more of a healthy habit if I could/would actually review them and actively try to utilize them. One thing that was frustrating though (and quite disappointing) is that the therapist teaching the group wasn't able to answer a question/help me out when I asked how to 'counter' certain thoughts I had. His response was "I dunno. You're gonna have to talk to your therapist about that" So of course I felt like "Oh crap. I'm truly messed up! Even the group therapist doesn't know how to help me!".

Right now I'm just annoyed with the current group I'm going to.

[Jamous]

yookincalmey (did I get that right?) has a lot of great insight. You really posed some good questions to ask yourself- ones that are easier to relate to and make a lot more sense when it comes to 'the heart' of the BPD person.

Often times the traits do come across as too vague, not easy to identify with, or kind of exaggerated depending on where you're getting your info from.