YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

It makes perfect sense now! This girl I know who is generally a pretty good and intelligent person has recently been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I knew something was different about her because of a few incidents. We were at a movie theater once and she literally couldn't control herself in how obnoxious she was. She was pretty annoying while we were trying to enjoy what we came to watch. It was as if she was a 5-year old brat all of a sudden and just couldn't stop no matter what you said! There were a few similar incidents like that too with parties and whatnot.

What's really odd is that on most occasions she's super friendly, quiet and seemingly "harmless" and it wasn't until a month ago that she finally found out with therapy/psychiatry that she has this disorder. I admit I knew very little about it until she told me that she had it, and what a relief! Most of the time certain things people do that seem out of the norm would be considered to be general bad behavior, like before aspergers was really a thing we knew about, and upon learning that someone has a mental issue that makes it difficult or prevents them from being socially adjusted we are then able to adjust our mind sets and approach! I see her much differently now, but in a positive way! My judgement on her was based my limited knowledge.

And for her I bet its the biggest relief of all because she can now actively manage that part of herself, knowing what her demons are!

I'm happy to hear that she's got an idea of what she's working with. It also helps the people around her if they're aware as well!

I send her lots of love!!

Thanks Kittieface, I shall do that! If only more of us could get a grasp on that sort of thing early in life!

It can take years to get diagnosed, so I'm so glad for your friend. I didn't get diagnosed till I was 29, and I was diagnosed while getting inpatient treatment for an eating disorder (Eating disorders are common among those with BPD, also substance abuse, etc).

It really was a mix of relief (I know what's wrong now!) and sadness/anger etc because I can be so hard to deal with and treat.

It sounds like you are a very compassionate friend. The book "Stop Walking on Eggshells- Taking your Life Back When Someone You Care About has BPD" by Paul T Mason was helpful to my husband and my parents to help them understand where I'm coming from and might be a good read for you.

I agree with Blackbird: The "Stop Walking on Eggshells..." book has a lot of great information. I bought the book before I was even diagnosed with BPD and it gave me insight on things I hadn't yet realized. I began recognizing how my behavior affected others because it let me see my behavior from another person's perspective. I learned that I wasn't always justified in my actions (which was a MAJOR thinking error for me), how irrational my thoughts of abandonment were/can be, and so on... Another informative book is "I HATE YOU, DON'T LEAVE ME".

It really is admirable to have someone empathize and have compassion and patience for their friend that is dealing with this disorder. For me it has been a painful journey because I often KNOW that what I am doing is 'wrong', but for whatever reason I have tended to give in to my emotions and throw logic out the window. Regret and self-loathing have been torturous. I've hated and beaten myself up over the way I react to things- in the moment, immediately after, and in time that has yet to come. Practicing self-control has really helped me over the years but I definitely have more work ahead of me- likely for a lifetime.

Just keep in mind that not every Borderline person acts/reacts the same. We typically do share a lot of common traits, but for instance, I really can't see myself being disruptive during a movie- (and possibly attention-seeking? Idk because I'm not her, or in her position)

But again, it's really admirable that you're taking the time to better understand your friend's struggle. I commend you! Best of luck to both of you... Hopefully your friend will see that she is not alone in this fight

Blackbird- I think it took quite awhile for her too! I will put that book on my wishlist since I'd love to know more how to deal with and be compassionate towards others who have this. And who knows, I'm sure plenty of others out there have it and go through life getting diagnosed.

Jamous- Thank you for your kind words! I'll look up that other book as well! Part of me feels that it's possible the woman I was once married to may also potentially have BPD by the way she is and if I can better understand and deal with her, the better my own and my children's lives will be. My feelings are anger with her come from her inability to express to me that she was ever wrong about anything, even though she was always being judgmental and hypocritical with me. Eating disorder? Oh she has/had that... kept it secret from even me! (Until I found a spoon and laxatives in her dresser drawer once.) The friend of mine who was just diagnosed is someone who will openly want to hug and cuddle you all over, even with her fiance' around lol! (whom I've known since he was 3 and is a very open and thoughtful guy) I've made it a point in my life to give people chances, even though some people have tended to be sociopaths.

Fun fact... so that time at the theater? I was not only there with friends and she sat next to me sans boyfriend, holding on to my arm the whole time as if for dear life, but my girlfriend was at home volunteering herself to watch the kids so my EX WIFE could join us all and watch the movie! (It was a simulcast exclusive live event, thus one showing being exclusive) At some point my friend realized that my ex wife was sitting next to me and was about to freak out wanting to open up her mouth about the pain she caused me, and I had to hold her and shush her, reassuring her of where she was and the promise she made that she'd behave relatively for my sake, despite that whole justice thing... lol awkward much? I still loved my friend despite that! There's just something I understood about it without being conscious of it.

Eather667- You are so welcome!
Umm, yeah... That situation at the movie theater had to be incredibly awkward, uncomfortable, and intense! Sounds like you guys had a movie of your own playing out AS you were watching the movie!

Question: Have you looked up the DSM criteria for BPD by chance? That might give you somewhat of a guideline to go by in regards to your ex and the diagnostic criteria. Of course, it's simply YOUR perspective of her behavior, but it just might have some merit to it.
When you mention your ex and "her inability to express to me that she was ever wrong about anything, even though she was always being judgmental and hypocritical with me". I can relate to that on many levels.

It sucks to be 'guilty' of that kind of behavior because I have/had always thought of myself as pretty reasonable, agreeable, able to empathize and having a willingness to see where the other person is coming from. It wasn't until reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells..." that I was TRULY able to recognize that my behavior and beliefs were pretty far from it!

While I wasn't so full of pride that I refused to admit my faults or when I was wrong- I discovered I had a problem recognizing my faults a lot of the time because my feelings were so intense that I suppose they 'convinced' or 'tricked' me into thinking I was absolutely right.

After I read the book and had so many 'Ah Ha' moments, I felt compelled to apologize to my ex-husband and even his parents for the way I acted/reacted/treated them in the time I knew them. I think it really threw them off because I took serious, detailed accountability for what I did wrong and I doubt they ever expected it. It made me pretty sick and angry with myself once I realized how awful I acted, and even worse- that I had no idea it was even a problem!

I realized I was SUPER critical of my ex (in my defense- he had a huge problem with lying and struggled with addiction), and I felt I could basically 'do no wrong' because He was the liar and the one that was messing up'...
Even when things would be going better, I'd find something else that I wasn't happy with.

The book helped me to understand that sometimes people with BPD will start a fight for virtually no reason, other than to 'test' the other person's reaction. In my case I figured out that I would 'test' how committed my guy was, how quickly he'd leave me, how much he'd tolerate, etc.
I NEVER would've imagined I had a problem like that (because everything was always so intense & in-the-moment), but after re-evaluating my behavior in the past- it made perfect sense! If things were going well- It was 'scary' because in my mind "I KNEW he was going to leave me. I KNEW I didn't DESERVE for things to be going well and since he will LEAVE ME ANYWAY- I MIGHT AS WELL HURRY UP AND GET IT OVER WITH by acting like a total bitch- which will HOPEFULLY make him leave me sooner. THAT way I'LL BE THE ONE IN 'CONTROL' of the relationship, and I can 'PROVE' he was going to leave me anyway! JERK!".
I mean, how messed up/distorted is that?! Why couldn't I realize sooner that my behavior was basically a self-fulfilling prophecy? How fair was it for me to 'decide' how things were going to go; making my guy's mind up for him...?

It's harder for me to admit to myself 'how wrong I've been', than it is to admit it to other people. The term "your own worst enemy" fits well here.

You seem rather intuitive and empathetic. I mean, especially when you mentioned "There's just something I understood about it without being conscious of it."
I doubt a lot of people could recognize that, and would likely have had a difficult time stepping back and giving that person a chance.

In the book "Stop Walking on Eggshells..." there is a quote by Susan Forward, Ph.D. that says "No matter how confused, self-doubting or ambivalent we are about what's happening in our interactions with other people, we can never entirely silence the inner voice that always tells us the truth. We may not like the sound of the truth, and we often let it murmur just outside our consciousness, not stopping long enough to listen. But when we pay attention to it, it leads us toward wisdom, health and clarity. That voice is the guardian of our integrity."

I didn't mean to make this post so long, but hopefully it'll lend some insight to someone (or make them believe I'm one crazy bitch) I've got so much more to write, but I suppose I'd better wrap this up.

Ether667- So sorry for spelling your Username incorrectly in my previous post!

Ether667- (and Others that are interested)-

According to the book mentioned in my previous post- These are Thoughts, Feelings, and Behaviors that May Indicate BPD:
(I'm only going to list the ones that might apply to situations Ether667 mentioned earlier)

*Have difficulty remembering the good things about a person they're casting in the role of the villain
*Alternate between seeing themselves as either worthless or flawless
*Believe that others are either completely right or totally wrong
*Alternate between idealizing people and devaluing them
*Believe that others are responsible for THEIR (the BPD person) actions-- or take too much responsibility for the actions of others
*Seem unwilling to admit to a mistake-- or feel that everything that THEY do is a mistake
*Base their beliefs on feelings rather than facts
*Not realize the effects of their behavior on others
*Have extreme moodiness that cycles very quickly- (in minutes or hours)
*Have difficulty managing their emotions
*Feel emotions so intensely that it's difficult to put others' needs-even those of their own children- ahead of their own
*Feel distrustful and suspicious a great deal of the time
*Feel ignored when they are not the focus of attention (sound at all familiar Ether?)
*Express anger inappropriately or have difficulty expressing anger at all
*Feel they can never get enough love, affection, or attention
*Have trouble observing others' personal limits
*Have trouble defining their own personal limits
*Act impulsively in ways that are potentially self-damaging, such as spending too much, engaging in dangerous sex (I get it, but does the wording sound cheesy to anyone else? ) fighting, gambling,abusing drugs or alcohol, reckless driving, shoplifting, or disordered eating
*Change their expectations in such a way that the other person feels they can never do anything right
*Needlessly create crises or live a chaotic lifestyle (Hello drama!)
*Act inconsistently or unpredictably
*Cut people out of their life over issues that seem trivial or overblown
*Alternately want to be close to others, then distance themselves (Examples include picking fights when things are going well, or alternately ending relationships and then trying to get back together) ==I always think of 'Janelle' from TEEN MOM on
this one especially, but many of the other traits as well==
*Act competent and controlled in some situations but extremely out of control in others
*Verbally abuse others, criticizing and blaming them to the point where it feels brutal
*Act verbally abusive toward people they know very well, while putting on a charming front for others (Can switch from one mode to the other in seconds)
*Act in what seems like extreme or controlling ways to get their own needs met
*Do or say something inappropriate to focus the attention on THEM when they feel ignored
*Accuse others of doing things they did not do/ having feelings they do not feel/ or believing things they do not believe


And that was just 'a few' (lol) examples/possibilities!
Everyone needs to keep in mind that BPDs usually think and act in extremes- black and white- so don't jump to conclusions about yourself or someone else being 'Borderline' simply because you recognize a couple commonalities with the info. listed above. Not all 'Borderlines' have all of these traits, and though it sounds pretty bad when it's all summed up- 'Borderlines' have a lot of great qualities Give us/them a chance.. please?
I appreciate the authors of "Stop Walking on Eggshells..." (Paul T. Mason, M.S. and Randi Kreger) for explaining it in terms that are easier to understand and recognize. (very helpful when you have distorted thinking ) The book also has information for those dealing with someone they know that has BPD, as well as insight/perspective from those diagnosed with BPD and non-BPDs.

Some Positive Qualities of Borderline Personality peeps:
*We can be incredibly intuitive and sensitive in the way we are able to 'feel' other people's emotions
*Our intense emotions = Passion about/for people & other stuff
*BPD ppl are typically very insightful and/or willing to gain insight when it comes to themselves, others, situations
*If you like excitement- We've got it! Rarely a dull moment with us
*Our passion can be expressed in loyalty and perseverance
*Many Borderlines find themselves working in 'Mental Health' and other occupations where they can help others
*Because of our 'extremes', I believe most BPDs are able to play devil's advocate (I've been told this is especially great if you want to become an attorney)
*Tend to be rather intelligent
*Are great at fighting for any CAUSE!
*Capable of being very personable and tend to draw others to us
*We can be very welcoming to others and are especially perceptive of those who can use a friend/someone to relate to
*Details? We got em! We know em! We've seen em!
*We are capable of experiencing a variety of moods- sometimes in minutes or hours
*I believe we're more open about discussing AND EXPRESSING (lol) our feelings
*We've experienced an intense amount of pain and criticism, but it makes us that much stronger if we've made it this far! (even if we only feel strong in regard to our experiences, rather than emotion)
*Because we tend to be suspicious, we make DAMN GOOD investigators! Better watch yourself!
*Nothing's 'getting by' us (even if we allow you to think it is)
*Though it may not appear that way, we can actually be very remorseful if/when we hurt others
*We're not easily forgotten
*Our stubbornness can actually be a good thing when it comes to our integrity and values
*We are 'THINKERS' and 'FEELERS' - intense-like though.. haha

That's what I came up with Anyone have anything they want to add? I have to admit that this was incredibly difficult for me to think of/write because all too often our Strengths are also our Faults, our Positives are also our Negatives, the things that Help us the most tend to be the things that Hurt us the most. So I tried my best to keep a positive spin on everything. Enjoy! -Jamous-

Thanks Jamous! No apologies ever needed for longer posts with me!

I have the sample of the book from itunes and once I have a few pennies to spare I'll be purchasing it! Thank you!!