YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

Right now it is Feb 2016.

I've not had an intimate sexual/romantic relationship since Jan 2007.

(I thought I would die from shame from typing that. While it still sucks to see that, I didn't die.)

I've not been on a date since October 2013, and that was the last time I kissed someone.

I am filled with shame to admit that to myself.

Frequently, in this forum, I have said "A person is only as sick as their secrets" (everything wise I ever repeat I heard from either my mother or 12 step groups).

I have to be willing to take my own medicine, so here I am world.

So there, there is my secret: I haven't had much romantic success lately. Or ever, really. I'm fast approaching middle age.

I am lonely.

I was chilled with recognition when I heard David Rakoff say "I am beloved by all and loved by none."

The following is cheesy, so prepare yourself.

To me, a big big goal, a dream, would be to go on a date.

I can hardly imagine being the kind of person who would go on a date (which is odd since I've been on quite a few dates before this mess).

To invite someone out, have them show up, and be seen in public as someone who is on a date.

Like the word "heroism", I am sad that the word "grieve" in American English has only one meaning. While that is an appropriate meaning, I wish I had a word for a more everyday, "small" kind of grieving. Maybe "saudade" is closer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudade

Am I allowed to grieve a lack of romance? Am I willing to take five minutes to do so?

A brief tale to illustrate

In graduate school I had this little, dimly lit apartment. Due to dumb plumbing/design, my bookshelf would get sprayed from the leaky pipe in my shower. Neglecting it, I was astonished one day to find mushrooms growing out of the bookcase.

I cleaned it out, disinfected the surface, left the drawers open, and let more sunlight in. I never had trouble again. I let the sunlight in.

They say the crack is where the sunlight comes in.

Maybe I'm a little less sick. There is my secret, thrown out in the world. My romantic, sexual, and intimate lives are a disappointment.

I'm sorry you've been stuck in such a situation. Having a similar number attached to my sexuality, I know how dehumanizing that can feel. As Lister from Red Dwarf said, "I prefer to measure in ice ages so the number's smaller." Every time I see some abusive asshole with a loving girlfriend, I wonder why it is that I must be worse than him to not even be on anyone's radar. Every time I find the courage to tell someone my feelings they get shocked and angry as if I had crossed some boundary when I'm just trying to have what it seems like everyone else in the world has. So, as sad as I am that you have to experience this too, it's nice to know I'm not alone. I always feel a knot in my stomach when I hear someone on this podcast say that they could never have made it through without their loving and tolerant partner. I wonder how these people can find someone so tolerant and understanding while I seem to be denied even bad relationships. Once in a group, I mentioned a fear of being alone for the rest of my life. The person I was talking with kind of laughed and said that this was so unlikely as to not even need discussed. His confidence brought me a bit of joy, but that was 3 or 4 years ago and there has been no improvement since then. Nevertheless, I'm cursed with a painful optimism that this situation will have to change someday. Even the lowliest of animals (including politicians) seem to be able to find someone, why do I keep getting dealt a bad hand (so to speak). I worry that when that day comes, my inexperience and the shattered confidence of prolonged unwanted celibacy will make me far from the person this hypothetical humanitarian will want to be with, but I'll just have to deal with that one when it comes (so to speak).

Sallie Mae, Good evening and thanks so much for your post. I admire the kindness and thoughtfulness of your post, and the delightful turns of phrase. "I'm cursed with a painful optimism" is at once both lovely and heartbreaking. You are a very fine writer.

Yes, unwanted celibacy sucks. Like you said, it is nice to know that I am not alone.

And oh boy does society have zero interest in men like me. I often feel invisible. I am the prototypical nice guy: responsible job, khakis, don't hurt anyone, don't yell or fight. The same qualities that make me a good employee and citizen (maybe even a decent man?) are used as a means to club me over the head.

In my original post, I had two problems: not dating, and shame about not dating. Now I have a little less shame!

Separate from those two issues, is something I realize, chillingly, about myself: I am the author of my non-dating. To wit: since my last date in, sigh, 2013 lets say I've met 1000 dating-eligible women. None have dated, kissed, or held my hand. What's the only thing these 1000 women have in common? Me!

(I also hasten to add that I love love love women, and honor their choice to turn me down for a date. If they don't want to go out with me, for any or no reason, I want them to turn me down, politely. And the women I've asked out and said no have been so wonderful and kind, considering my dignity.)

So while it sucks for me (speaking only for myself) to realize I am the author of the depths of my sucking at life, I am also the only person who will get me out.

"If you're looking for a helping hand, look at the end of your arm"

If I got myself into the mess, then I can get myself out.

Which is what I tell myself on good days.

In the meantime, I'm sad and lonely. I work hard each day, but for what? I've always loved work, but what does it mean on a Tuesday night at 8 pm?

If God exists, why would God give me such a desire for a woman with no means to satisfy that desire? I have a desire to eat, sleep, work, and enjoy sunlight, all of which are satisfied. Why am I so wrong that I can't?

Maybe tomorrow I'll wake up a half hour earlier, eat a little better, be a little more cheerful. I tell myself that I only need one woman to notice me, to give me a chance. And that's probably true. Likewise, my career suuuucked until just person gave me a chance.

I wonder if I am defective. What is wrong with me? Or worse, what if nothing is wrong with me and I'm just invisible. Sure, that nice guy at work, but no one loves. No one really cares.

Who knows? Maybe tomorrow I'll be at the grocery store, or next month I'll be on jury duty. Maybe I'll mention something silly and a woman will intrigued enough to flirt back. Then somehow an actual miracle would happen (I am not being facetious that it would take a miracle) and we'd go on a date. Maybe she'd find me weird and awkward on the first date, but charming enough to give a chance for a second and third date.

If she decided then, no, that would be awesome. Just let me get to the third date. That's all I ask.

I'll be a good little Widget-Producing-Bot for the rest of my life: all I ask for is three dates. Just give me something to look forward to.

Hi Oak.

It's me, the apple with the broken heart.

I've not posted on the forum in a while - I've been isolating on and off and I can tell this weekend will be that once again.

As you know, I've not been in your shoes recently, but prior to dating the man who broke up with me in September, I had been single for 4-5 years. A couple dates with awkward men that i never had a connection with.

I'm back to feeling so scared and alone and out of hope. I tried so hard during those 4 years and I am trying so hard now to be optimistic but I just can't right now. I don't know if it's the biological clock ticking (I am unsure if I even want children, that is something to discuss with a partner) but I just know that I have this strong drive to find my partner, my best friend, my other half.

People tell me to take care of myself first. I have some great coworkers who make me feel proud of myself when I come in and say 'I got my mortgage approved.' or when I said 'One of my student loans is under $8,000' or when I asked them about home improvement and problems I run into with caring for my home (I have to buy a lawn mower this spring for the first time ever). My therapist tells me to take care of myself, to do what I want to do, my friends tell me to take care of myself and to just live life and I am. I'm eating, I'm drinking water, I'm seeing my doctors (Saw the dentist recently, no cavities, yay!), I'm taking my medication, I'm trying to walk my dog more on the days when the depression doesn't make me crawl into bed, I'm trying to journal or write lists of my strengths, and my bitch list about the ex and all that. I have a great job, I have A nice car, I have a dog and cat who snuggle with me every night, i can afford things I need and want.

I did the work. I spent 4 years just focusing on myself and when I finally found someone to love and who I wanted to help achieve the mediocre success I have, I questioned myself so often in his presence. I cried driving home many a night, confused because of the mixed signals I received, i found myself afraid when 'I love you' slipped out one evening when he had me laughing. I found myself afraid because he had said often that he didn't like anyone or anything and wanted to just go live in a cabin. He didn't want to interact with people, just wanted to code in peace and not worry about anything. Then there were times when he laid on the ground and looked at the stars with me, when he said my dog and I felt like family and he missed his family, when I had a mini anxiety attack trying to clean my basement (Filled with deceased parents' things) and he hugged me.. but then he got angry at me for getting frustrated months later trying to fix a plumbing issue. He says I am reactive and impulsive in anger (shit that is true.)... It's getting harder to remember those good moments though I feel - One time he said he was happy with me, but I said nothing back because I was so confused from him, he no longer touched me intimately and I felt rejected sexually. And it makes me sad.

God this is becoming about me, not you. I'm sorry.

I'm so fucking tired of being told to take care of me when I am doing just fine - I am just lonely and bored! I want to go to museums and coffee shops but I hate doing that shit alone. I have two friends in the area but they are more.. I don't know.. I am friendly with them, and I will go out to eat with them, or spend time with them but we have such varying interests that I don't feel as if they are part of my tribe? I miss the friendships where you get giddy because someone totally understands your love of (Insert fandom here) and OMG 'gets it'!

*sigh* You mentioned in your stuttering post (Hey, high five! I am an adult female stutterer!) that you worked in Cleveland Indians retail. That made me want to look you up sometime and go out for drinks! I'm in ohio myself. *fist bump*

..Thanks for letting me spew this. I cried a bit and got some of this sadness out for the night.

Applecider high five!

Thanks for your post. It means alot. Your heart is indeed broken, but in your apple core are seeds of hope.

I hope you find true love soon.

Yeah! While most of the players were a bit standoffish to us hourly peons (excepting catchers, who were super warm and down to earth), both the mascot and the executives in Cleveland were super nice to us. I return your Ohio greeting; I have impeccable 216 cred, and intend to visit Ft. Ancient in the 513 this summer.

I am pleased to hear that work is going well, you have stable housing, and that you went to the dentist. I am especially impressed by that! I was working poor and couldn't afford to go the dentist for five years. Then, just before I started to escape working poverty, I discovered the community college has cleanings for $15. Working poverty is ingenious in its irony and cruelty. (I also have no cavities, and am in excellent dental health.) Going to the dentist is a huge part of self care. Awesome. Well done,Applecider.

I am very sorry for your romantic disappointment. When reading of your time together my heart/soul was like "Agh. Gah" A little bit of nice for you in life, then whap!

I wish I could say something not-so-trite as "I am sorry for your pain". That is very sincere, though. I am sorry you are suffering.

You stutter? I knew there was something I liked about you.

For a few weeks recently I was disfluent. My psyche was trying to tell me something. HALT, mostly.

While I am usually fairly fluent, to tie this back to romance, one of the rare times I reliably stutter is when talking about my exes. "Rebecca". "Alyssa." "Christina."

btw, pronouncing the letter "h" has always been a problem for me. It has a weird, fraught, and unnatural mouthfeel to me. So saying "Christina" is all sorts of problematic for me.

Even, in practice, "Rebecca" effectively has an "h" in there, more of a "heh" type, which a little less difficult for me than the "huh" type of "h".

I did get fluency tools in the 513 in speech therapy at Miami (where the Indians mascot went to school!): easy onset, smooth transition, and reduced rate. Ironically, I find using a subtle "h" ("huhhhh") to easy onset into a difficult word very useful and effective.

Which contradicts what I was just saying about "h" two seconds ago. Still, "h" and "j" can go to hell. At least for me. I'd be interested to hear what (if any) letters give you trouble.

While my dating obviously sucks lately, growing up as a stutterer I learned two things real quick, which serve me well to this day:

1. If I can make someone laugh, they won't laugh at my stuttering. Ergo I developed something of a sense of humor.

2. If I say my ordinarily mumbly words with enough natural positivity and warm enthusiasm, then people have no idea what I said but they like it, so they just agree. With people I'm around all the time I can almost (but not quite) speak in expressive grunts, and they know exactly what I'm saying. Almost like a twin Esperanto.

I think stuttering expanded my vocabulary: I'd realize that I couldn't say a word coming up as I was speaking, so I'd switch at the last instant to an easy word. Even if the sentence made no sense grammatically and with my mumbling, if I smiled and believed what I just said, people accepted it.

Well, Applecider, I still haven't gone on a date and I may cry myself to sleep tonight, but reading your kind, lovely post and expressing myself about stuttering make me feel 0% alone.

Youer totally not alone, Oak. My heart breaks for you because you seem like such a wonderful, sweet guy and I am so sorry ladies aren't giving you a chance. I believed strongly in giving people chances - After all.. the guy who broke my heart didn't have a job, didn't have income and yet I still believed in giving him a chance and I fell I love with him.

hope you find happiness Oak, I admire all the positivity you express in your posts. You seem so gentle and kind and calm in your posts. You deserve love and so much of it.

My stuttering too flares up when I am stressed and tends to be a lot of M sounds and R sounds for me. L too. I never pay much attention to it anymore except when it's gotten really bad and I know I need to take some time and de-stress. My stuttering thankfully doesn't bother me much anymore.. it's how I talk.

I'm in the 419 area code myself.

Aww, thank you, Applecider. Your post is some of the kindest words anyone has ever said about me. I hope I can live up to them.

I am in a mess, no doubt, with no obvious way out and little hope. But I've been in essentially hopeless situations before: I couldn't put a sentence together until age 15, and as recently as 2008 I was broke, drunk, and unemployable. All those situations have worked out.

There are many good, lovely people in the 216 who have given me a chance. Kind as they are, they never see me any different, even though I've tried to improve myself.

Example: Lately I've taught myself AutoCAD, which will travel anywhere I might want to go. This time next year will be the appropriate time to renegotiate my current position, or leave. Excepting family of origin, I have nothing keeping me here.

Maybe I'll be the same, undateable person in Tacoma, Savannah, or Fargo. But if I don't have someone special in the 216 by then, that will be ten loveless years in Cleveland. Why should year eleven be magically different?

What breaks my heart is that I know there are great, amazing women here. Somehow the good qualities you are kind enough to ascribe to me are not getting through.

And when I do leave Cleveland, I won't come back. It will be too much heartache to remember when I am trying to start a new life.

If they ask "where are the good men?", I'd have to respond that, to the extent I am a good man, I couldn't communicate it.

I am lonely tonight, and right this instant, and will probably be lonely tomorrow, and for as long as I care to imagine forward...

but!

All I need is one. One someone to give me a chance. She might see someone who overcame stuttering (perseverance), self-taught AutoCAD (smart and a self-starter). I think she'll throw me over her shoulder and run me down the aisle before anyone else gets a chance to snatch me away.

I have hope. Not much, but I am at least hoping to have hope.

I'll report back here if a miracle happens and I actually go on a date.

Thanks for listening!

Dearest Oak and SallieMae,
I can empathize with both of you and just from reading the posts from both of you, I would go on a date with either of you! I am in a relatively small area, population wise, and even smaller in open-mindedness. I have a fear of trusting men because of a lot of past harm, but I am that hopeless romantic and am also cursed with that eternal optimism you spoke about.

I have tried dating through dating sites but I rarely get to the date stage. I don't know if it will help either of you, but I am optimistic for both of you! That certain woman will come along. Feel free to message me any time you want to talk. I can relate.

I think both of you seem to express yourselves quite eloquently, which I find attractive. Big hugs!

Awww, thank you Dragonfly. I very much appreciate your kind and encouraging words.

While I am unhappy to not have been dating the last nine years (!), I do now feel one-third less shame, and 200% more acceptance.

Likewise, I hope that you find true love soon. Maybe you'll even have a summer romance! That would be great.

Finding a little residual courage that had not gotten beaten out of me by life, I chatted up a very pretty brunette girl I know at the mall today. Pasty from being indoors all winter and with a five o'clock shadow (not the good kind), I felt weird but tried to show an interest in her. She was very kind.

My hope right now that things will work out regarding dating/not dying alone is, without exaggerating, 1%. Maybe even 5%. But no higher

Still, that is better than the zero hope, dating-wise, I've had for too long.

And someday, if a miracle happens, and I go on a date, I promise to work the word "dragonfly" into the conversation in your honor, Dragonfly.

Oak,

How wonderful that you talked....dare I say flirted? ....with a pretty lady today! Very good! I have always found confidence in men very attractive. I hope you feel at least a little proud of yourself for displaying courage despite your nagging demons that suck the wind from your sails.

Just as I encourage you in your love endeavors, I, too will try to hold on to hope and venture out. In the mean time, I am here if you need to chat or a jolt of encouragement.