YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

(As a straight man, I can only speak for myself. While I celebrate sexual and gender diversity, I can only speak to male heterosexuality)

If I may bare my soul:

I often wish I could get across to women who are bored and lonely that there are men like me trying to reach them.

I am trying, with fits and starts, to learn ways to express myself that increases each of our dignity. And that builds attraction!

So if I am tongue-tied, or awkward, or a little cheesy and dorky, I hope you see the man within me. I want to learn about the woman in you.

And women often are so kind to my halting, sincere efforts to attract them and invite them out.

I read blogs and articles about how lonely single women are, and how they wish for a strong man.

While I can't/won't speak for other men, I am receiving that message. I am trying to implement it, however imperfectly.

Examples:

This month I went to get my teeth cleaned (for the first time in years, after being working poor), trimmed my nose hair (gross, but such is real life!), and bought new glasses that the female eye technicians suggested.

I am not, and maybe never be cool. My grooming efforts listed may not make me stand out, but I want to smell good and make a good impression.

While most women are very kind to my fumbling (yet improving!) efforts to invite them out, I am sorry to report that more than one woman has laughed at my sincere, kind invitations for a date. These callous actions hurt me more, and longer, than they may know.

Again, that is rare, but does happen.

But most women are kind, and trying themselves. To such persistent women I write:

So, woman out there, waiting: I have gotten the message. I am trying, with varying success to improve my finances, my career, my knowledge of culture, listening skills, and grooming.

It is like I am putting the pieces together of a puzzle, but I am missing this or that piece. Or as if I got the instruction book for a complex piece of machinery, but pages are missing.

But I won't always be awkward. I'll do better, whether it takes a year or til the day I die. As other guys see me succeed, I'll mentor them so they can win women like you.

You're worth it.

oak - I just wanted to say I think your post is amazing.

As a single female I usually feel just like the other women you mention. That there are no genuine guys out there who want the same things as me. Your post gives me a little hope. Thank you.

This is so painfully sweet. There are so many people on this big planet that I know plenty of wonderful friends who've just given up. Keep at it, guys. We're cheering you on.

Hi Oak,
After reading your post I felt the urge to let you know that having clean good teeth, a clean mouth, and handeling the nose hairs are at the top of my personal list. I do not know how old you are, but if the nose hairs are an issue, I am led to believe thatyou may be leaning toward your mid 30's< (forgive me if I have mis guessed). I will help you out here by saying that ear hair, unruly eyebrows, untidy facial hair, and a bad haircut are also awful to find on a man. I have been grooming men for over 24 years... so yes, I'm a pro here.

I can tell you that your attitude is stellar, as well as your writing ability; yet two more attractive qualities. I could surely add to this, but I would feel more comfortable if I knew your age; I can be more effective with my writing if I know a person's life stage. I am 43; 44 in August. Fair?

Sorry about the type O's above....

Oh, Melanie. If you want to discuss the intersection of grooming and gender, I will listen all day.

I am oftentimes sad that male beauty, outer and especially inner, is not celebrated more. I remember a woman telling me in 2005 that I had a beautiful smile. Eight years is a long time to go on one compliment.

But yeah, Melanie! I am 37, and would be pleased as punch to hear any insight you'd be willing to share about male grooming and hygiene. Any advice that a professional, like you, would be willing to share I'd greatly appreciate!

Especially considering that I am an utterly-ordinary looking man, whatever attractiveness I have is mostly je ne sais quoi.

I am not searching for a woman, not anymore.

Ten years ago I started reading those dating books: if you can name such a book from the last fifteen years, then I've read it. For men or women, good advice or bad.

I drank every drop of Kool Aid as prescribed:

Dress better
Clean fingernails
Good shoes
Smell good
Find local things to invite women to: restaurants, plays, museums.

The dating books took me further than I could have imagined: men and children are deferential to me, work colleagues are respectful, all "yes sir" and opened doors.

Women notice me, certainly: many have tucked their hair behind their ear, laughed when I didn't say anything particularly charming, touched my arm.

The dating books turned me into a respectable man, but I am not dating any more than in the bad old days. I am deeply grateful to the dating books: they brought out a side of me that otherwise would have been dormant. But they didn't help me get what I most want.

This month has been particularly hard: I had plans with four women, four phone numbers. I asked them out properly, according to all the unwritten rules. None of them showed.

This cycle has been going on for more months -years!- than I care to admit. Thus I am not searching for someone anymore.

It is quite the experience to sit at the restaurant and to observe the waitress as she realizes I am being stood up. This happened to me two weeks ago tonight. Per the role given me, I had to acknowledge that "my friend isn't showing up". I defused the awkwardness by chatting up the waitress, charming her, and leaving a generous tip. Such is the role a stood up man is given to act.

Beneath my laughter at the situation, which was not insincere, though I am a man I still have feelings. I felt shame and naked for... trying. Hope had won over experience, until it didn't.

I understand the trope is for single women to ask "Where are the good men?"

I don't know if I am a "good man", but I do know that I will not seek or invite women out, at least for awhile.

I'll focus on what the dating books brought out of me: I'll be at work, checking out a new restaurant, hiking, going to a play.

If romance shows up at my front door, bumps into me at work, that'll be fine. But I am not waiting. I have other things to do than try at a game I haven't won at.

I don't blame women, the dating books, or me. I gave it a good try.

I can hardly read my first post in this thread. It is so earnest. It was how I felt at the time. I do admire that me. He had fire.

I guess I'd want to feel like that again. Hope. But maybe not. No. Hope just built me up to.... well, you know the rest.

Anyone reading this is welcome to consider this a big, long whine, a pity party. I'd have to agree.

What makes me sad is the moments that never happened: the first date at the restaurant two weeks ago. The art museum followed by the Greek food.

What could have been? Why wasn't it?

Mysogeny is the first outcome of an earnest man being rejected over and over. Sometimes I wonder if prostitues are the answer for people like us. At least then there is a clear understanding of what both sides are getting. Despite how hard we try, the failure to attract a mate is a deep cut on the soul.

Maybe the problem is that we are too picky. If you look at it from this perspective, there must be a woman out there who would love you? Maybe you are subconsciously dismissing many women: is she slightly anti social, smells bad, doesn't have a job, socially awkward, physically unhealthy? Perhaps it is our standards that are preventing us from falling in love. Because once you get to know someone, it becomes easy to fall in love with their good qualities and overlook their bad qualities.

So instead of trying to improve your physical looks, your grooming, etc, maybe you should focus on your ability to fall in love with people who aren't perfect, who aren't traditionally beautiful. Basically, lower your standards and maybe you will find love.

Women, what do you think about that?

I'm just as hopeless as you, Oak, but I am starting to think it may be my standards are too high. And that is relative to each individual by the way. Brad Pits lowest standards are going to be on a different level than my highest standards.

I think a lot of men do set their standards too high in the beauty department and WAY too low on most every other standard. They aim for women who clearly won't share any interests, music taste, or experience with them. There are women out there who are attractive but maybe not conventionally so: because their priority isn't themselves, so they aren't super high maintenance. When you hit on a girl, do you think about the parts I yourself or your interests that you need to hide if she ever comes to your place or gets to know you? You shouldn't be ashamed. Your interests should be a perk to being with you.

If you are a bigger guy, either work on losing he weight (if you want to be healthy/hate your weight so much and make that your excuse for never dating) or embrace it and realize that some women will either look past it or love it. I know a guy who has an amazing sense of humor, he has perfect skin, great hair and a handsome face and I know women should be all over him but his confidence is so low that he pushes them away, and pity can only get you so far.

It sounds like you are working on yourself physically but work on who you are asking out and how much you really have in common. A girl who stands you up is a girl who isn't in a very good place in her life: she either doesn't know what she wants, likes to play games, or is so used to being sought after that she has gotten a pass on being rude. I went after a girl like this and let her play her flaky games with me until I put my foot down. Thing was, I had a lot in common with her and honestly liked her as a person. She finally showed me respect when I demanded it and gave me rare one-on-one time that other girls were envious of (one wanted to deck me!) but I blew it by not kissing her because I'm a coward.

Know what you want. Know what she wants. Don't try to be something you aren't to fit it, don't put up with flakiness or abuse. Lower your physical standards a bit f you are looking for Barbie: but someone you are still attracted to--a great smile, a nice rack, beautiful silky hair, she doesn't have to be a troll to like you). Above all have confidence!

I'm sorry that you're not getting positive reactions to all your hard work.

I agree with the previous posts. As you know, it's been years since I've dated, but wanted to share some thoughts. The difference between the nice guys that I didn't date (more than a few times or at all) and the nice guy I wound up with are important:
Back-bone
Confidence
Sense of humor
I would say that the key thing that turned me off a number of nice guys was the feeling that I would have been able to emotionally push them around in a relationship and would lose respect for them (and myself, no doubt). I'm sure that as someone who hadn't been in a lot of relationships, the idea of even being in emotional control of a relationship was scary as well.

You have mentioned in other posts that you were previously a "rake". So, I assume that there was a time when you dated more widely. I would encourage you to think back to those times and think about what is different now and what is the same and how you could use your past experience to your advantage.

I would also encourage you to do a few specific things - enjoy more social outings with friends and without a focus on dating to broaden your social circle, consider dating someone well within your dating "range" - i.e. someone of similar level looks, means, education, etc. As others have said, make sure there are one or two things that you find attractive, but maybe not the whole package. Make sure that there are some shared interests including perhaps building a friendship first, so you will have things to discuss and know that some type of relationship is possible.

I'm thinking good thoughts for your future success.