YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

People whose sexual identity doesn't fall into neat categories often struggle with feeling like outsiders, or being misunderstood. This might be a good place to share and/or ask questions.

A fine question.

As a Kinsey zero, I have been enriched in my understanding of my own gender proclivities and fluidity by those who explore and expand their sexual identities.

Once I started reading feminist and LGBT thought, I realized that I had a place in the sexual marketplace. In other words, I was never going to fit in or meet the standards of the cookie cutter football hero. I was a geek.

Once I stopped trying to fit into their mold, the true me emerged and has bloomed.

Figuring out my sexuality has been tremendously difficult and has involved a lot of emotional onion-peeling about both my sexual identity and my gender identity.

I currently identify as pansexual (which is like bisexual, except that it also includes people that identify as anything other than male or female), being more interested in a person's personality than their physical attributes (hearts not parts). That's not to say that I don't find bodies attractive. I enjoy the beauty of the human body in all shapes and types, the configuration is just not important to me. I tend to like nerdy/dorky people who don't quite fit into traditional gender boxes. Maybe it's narcissistic because I am a nerdy/dorky person who doesn't quite fit into traditional gender boxes myself

It took me a long time to get to that description. For a while (short while) I tried to convince myself I was a straight women, but even though I was attracted to some men, I was uncomfortable with the way I was treated. Not that I was treated badly in any way, I just didn't feel comfortable being the girlfriend. I didn't like being doted on, being called beautiful, feeling submissive, or being taken care of. I was not graceful or delicate, and I didn't want to be. I wanted to be one of the guys. One of the guys that the other guys made out with.

Then I fell head over heels for a girl and for a long time after I called myself a lesbian. This was more comfortable because I could be butch and feel like one of the guys. But that identity was mostly comfortable when I was socializing with straight people. I did love hanging out with gay men but they rarely read me as a lesbian. Worst of all, I wasn't making connections with lesbians. I was scared of them, mostly. I was always worried that they would see me as not enough, though I didn't really know what that meant. I had better luck with bi women, but I still wasn't quite comfortable with myself in those relationships.

The thing is, I connected mostly with nerdy guys and gay guys. I felt like a nerdy, romantic, gentle guy who was sometimes into women and sometimes into men. I realized that I didn't like being romantic with guys because as butch as I presented myself to be, they always wanted to feminize me. I realized I didn't want to be seen as beautiful, I wanted to be handsome. I wanted to be strong and felt the desire to be able to provide for someone. I wanted to be supportive and sensitive, but with a masculine energy rather than a feminine one. It is a difference that is so subtle that it is hard to pinpoint. This was also what I found wrong in my interactions with lesbians, because lesbians love women but I didn't feel like that described who I was. I was a female bodied person who liked women, but I didn't feel like a lesbian. It was mind boggling.

Then I stumbled across the terms that I am currently using to identify myself: genderqueer, gender variant, or gender fluid. (There was an awesome guest blog about gender variance by Kasey that you can find here: http://mentalpod.com/archives/2509) The idea is that gender is more than just a binary system. I do have times when I express myself more femininely, though I sometimes wonder though if this is only because I am buckling to the pressure of the outside world, instead of a truly expressing myself. Mostly though, I feel that I have a masculine energy and I am starting to express that outwardly as much as possible.

I guess I got a little off topic, so coming back! I feel a lot more comfortable interacting with people now that I'm more comfortable and in touch with my gender identity. I am still single and have been for a while. I have a lot of things to work on before I feel like I can actively seek out a relationship, but that's where I am now. I do worry that when I do decide to seek a relationship, it will be hard to find a person who will love me for who I am and not what I appear to be. I worry that if I am always sort of in the middle of the gender spectrum that I will never be enough of what someone needs. I worry that my physical attributes (boobs) mess with my gender presentation and I don't appear as masculine as I wish.

I will also never get a penis which is just a bummer. I mean, seriously. Guys with small dick concerns got nothin' on trans guys because my shit is so small that it's inside me. Just sayin'.

Sorry, I can only be serious for so long. If you made it all through that, thanks for sticking around! You deserve a reward. Here's a bad pun I found:
I changed my iPod's name to Titanic. It's syncing now.

Jokes about tragedy heal the soul.

Pigeon,
Thank you for that illuminating share. I would like to add it to the "possibly read on air or post on the website" if that's okay with you.
If you ever get to LA I would love to interview you as I think stories like yours are important and not understood by most of society.

Paul

Absolutely share away! That means a lot to me, Paul and thank you endlessly for creating this place for me to talk about these things.
The biggest hurtle (I think for all of us) is the self doubt. I was at once thrilled and terrified about your offer! It feels like my inner neglected middle child yearning for attention is fighting with the self-doubt monster that really doesn't need explaining in this forum of peers.
Anyway, to sum up, I am interested and terrified but I'll email you so we can discuss this further

Yay for Pigeon!

You are great. That was a great post.

(Of course gender is an endlessly fascinating topic for me.)

Gender and sexuality are some of my favorite discussion topics! They are so personal and so individual that everyone you talk to has a different view and different experience.
I agree Oak, it is endlessly fascinating!

Thanks for creating this thread Paul! I agree, this is an endlessly fascinating topic, and something I've been thinking about a lot recently for various reasons.
I've identified as, and am pretty much assumed by everyone who meets me to be, a heterosexual female for pretty much my entire life. However, I've realized more and more as time goes on that neither of these labels entirely fit, and that trying to operate as such in my daily life leads to a lot of assumptions, misunderstandings, and awkwardness...the problem is, I don't know of any other labels that can easily explain where I'm coming from, either (although the terms "genderqueer," "gender fluid," etc. that Pigeon mentioned earlier and that are discussed in the guest blog might be appropriate.) I suppose that's always the case in a way, though; any means of "labeling" oneself is really just an easily translatable shorthand for a whole mess of complexities, and I believe all of us are on a spectrum of some sort rather than falling into easily defined categories.
Up to this point in my life, I've only dated and had relationships with men. However, most of the people (I use the gender-neutral term on purpose) I'm attracted to are not conventionally attractive, and quite a few don't fit into traditional gender categories (Pigeon, your description of "nerdy/dorky people who don't quite fit into traditional gender boxes" sounds pretty much like the people I'm usually interested in too ). I am extremely uncomfortable with traditional gender roles...situations like dating, and even couples dancing where the man is supposed to lead, are entirely confusing to me, to the point where I quite often can't handle them. I tend to approach relationships from more of a masculine role in a lot of ways (e.g., being the first to approach the person I'm interested in; offering to pay for dates/open doors/etc.; assuming that if I do ever end up with someone long-term, I'm more likely than not to be the primary source of financial support/work outside the home/etc.). I forget that this confuses people, and often sends the wrong messages, coming from someone who looks like me.
I look pretty unmistakably female, but feel androgynous most of the time, and the way I dress tends to alternate between "vaguely feminine but comfortable" and "clothing more appropriate to a teenage/20-something guy than an almost-30-year-old woman." One of the privileges of being female in American society is that dressing in traditionally masculine or androgynous styles rarely raises eyebrows (as opposed to, say, a man wearing a dress).
Sexuality is another complicated mess entirely. Most aspects of sex, while I'm fascinated by it in the abstract, freak me the hell out to the point of panic attacks in practice, and I can't think of a good reason why this would be the case. "I like you, but I don't want to sleep with you" doesn't translate well to most people, and so the relationships I have tend to be more like friendships. I've explored the idea that I might be asexual, or at least fall somewhat on this spectrum (by the way, the Asexuality Visibility and Education Network -AVEN.org - is a great resource for anyone else questioning this), but then what to do with the fact that I do get crushes on/fall in love with people, and quite often at that?
I'm lucky to have a community of friends that's very diverse, open-minded, and full of people who love to talk about these things, although that doesn't mean it's easy for me to share my own experiences under any circumstances...it's generally much easier for me to be an observer (and, of course, to post semi-anonymously on Internet forums... ). Was finally able to start a discussion about this over the past weekend (sort of)...a friend made a comment to the effect of my being straight, and I said, "well...more or less, but it's complicated," and left it at that. I'm hoping I can get over my own insecurities enough to talk about this more in the near future. In any case, thanks for sharing your stories, and glad to hear that I - and you - are not alone in this.

I would have to say that for me sexuality is abstract. Oddly not "real" because relating to people in general is vague. Coupled with a totally screwed up physical sensation around touch and general discomfort. Most of the time I just feel like if my genitals where not present it wouldn't be a big loss.

Ugh, I wrote out a looong reply and I lost it because the forum logged me off. So I'm going to try and recreate it!

anxietygirl, thank you for sharing! I definitely agree that gender expression (as well as sexuality) is very much a spectrum. For me, it also varies in different situations and at different times in my life too. It’s very much a fluid thing and I really believe that everyone has at least some wiggle room along that spectrum, whether or not they’re comfortable acknowledging it. Sometimes trying to label gender and sexuality feels like nailing jello to a wall; you’re only going to get a small piece of it and it may not stick for long. Wouldn’t it be awesome if we could just live our lives, express ourselves, and love each other without ever having to explain it to other people?

I hope it’s not offensive to say, but I find asexuality to be very romantic. Connecting with and enjoying the companionship of someone in an intimate but not sexual way can be powerful and beautiful. I honestly believe that you can love someone fully and completely without ever expressing it sexually, and there is absolutely nothing wrong or “missing” with that.
It’s awesome that you’re starting to feel comfortable talking about it! Your friends sound great too, and I hope you feel like it’s a safe environment to share your feelings in. It might be helpful to feel out the group and find one or two people that might be more sensitive and understanding about your feelings and talk to them first. It’s scary, I know! There’s always a risk when you put something so personal out there, but there’s also great reward. Having someone you can work your feelings out with is so helpful.

ghughes, again, don’t want to offend, but I find your feelings very interesting. If you don’t mind my asking, do you feel the need to reach out and interact with people or is it something you feel you have to or should do? Also, if you’re comfortable, if you could expand on the vagueness of your interactions with people I would be interested in learning more about that.
I imagine your physical discomfort must be difficult to bear and to explain to people. Are you able to express that to the people in your life? And if so, are they respectful of your boundaries?