YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

I feel like a rapist.

I found out today that my most recent ex is seeing someone new. It has been less than six months since we broke up.

He said that I am "trying to fill some major voids when you really need to address them. You are too quick to find a partner and are forceful instead of just letting it happen. I used to do that as well. I also believe you need some feminine role models for nurturing and guidance. You need to be involved with something of meaning outside of work. You need a goal and you need people . I think that you have unrealistic expectations. You need more people so that you know you are not alone in the world. One person alone can't do that for you. You have shouldered so much that you have gone into yourself. I think you need to turn it over to strangers and let them take over. You need to a build a family to grow you, but you can't force it but you can reach out. I'm doing the same."

Too quick?! I was single for 4 fucking years before dating you, and I have never ever slept with any guy that I was not dating! And if I was forceful, I am sorry but I was trying to turn you on because I thought we were in a relationship and I was confused because you could not keep your hands off of me at first! You loved my body and I thought you wanted to have sex and I was determined to not let allow myself to be scared of sex anymore! Then you just stopped.. the affection just stopped and I was so scared and confused and I didn't know what I did wrong. MY mother died a YEAR AGO. I am still grieving and I was hoping dating you would open up new hobbies and interests! You said I need people - YOU ARE A PERSON I WANTED TO HAVE IN MY LIFE. My unrealistic expectations consist of someone with a steady job or who is working towards that goal actively. I have never dated a guy with a career or even a job that wasn't fast food! Am I wrong for wanting this and trying to help you get a job? I feel so god damn alone in the world, then you welcome me into your family and I fall in love with your Mom, your Dad, your siblings and cousins.. I know I am not alone in the world and I feel LOVED.. AND THEN YOU TAKE IT AWAY. How am I suppose to be build a family when you take it away!?

I'm in therapy, I'm on anti-depressants, I'm trying to sort through the house that I inherited so that I can start getting rid of my Mother and my Father's things. I feel so alone everyday that I don't go into work. I just joined an astronomy group.. I went to a makerspace meeting, I gave a Christmas card to the really nice cashier at the gas station who said I was really pretty and made me cry. I am trying so hard to build connections and to be better.. and no one ever comes back to me. I feel like I'm a horrible person..

You are going through an incredibly difficult time, but as is with the title of this forum, you are not alone! It seems like there's a great deal of negative thoughts taking over, and it's very understandable given all the battles you're fighting. You are NOT a horrid person, first of all. You sound/read like an incredibly sweet, caring, sensitive person that is in a great deal of pain. You are taking the right steps in trying to heal, but it seems like you may still have an attachment in some way with this ex. It doesn't seem like having any kind of dialogue with him is a safe thing for you right now. Maybe consider cutting off all contact for now? I think you are doing a great job making an effort to meet people, but what about something like a mental illness support group for dealing with things like depression? If you look up the website for NAMI, there are support groups all across the country with many people that I bet are dealing with the same thing. I'm looking into the same thing right now for dealing with my anxiety in addition to therapy. Please keep pushing forward, you are on the right path, but damn if the healing doesn't take a long time. I hope you continue sounding off on this board when things get hard. You are being heard.

yeah.. there's a lot of negative thoughts right now. It's the 1st anniversary of my Mom's Death, my 8th Christmas without my Dad. I'm an only child living in my childhood home and I'm surrounded by everything. My ex would come over and spend the weekends with me, his idea, and everytime I crawl into bed I imagine him lying there.

I knew he was unhappy.. but the breakup still caught me off guard. He too suffers from extreme depression, I think it's worse than mine as his was a constant hatred for the world and thinking he shouldn't have been born. Reading those things he sent to me so long ago.. I just want to scream at him that he is such a fucking hypocrit. I was happy before I met him! I was doing okay, I was stable! I was sad, but I was stable! He would often say that he wishes he hadn't been born because he had no choice, that he hated this world, that he was terrified he would have to take care of his parents, he was terrified of when their health started failing. He was so frustrated living in a half-finished home on a farm that was falling apart. He wanted to start his own businesses but never could get anything off the ground, no one would give him chance..

and here he is.. dating a girl who looks like me (His mom was right when she said he had a type..) but who is a business owner with her own shop. I wonder if he.. is trying to get from her what I think he was trying to get from me. When we first started dated, he said I wouldn't have to be alone anymore, that I could be welcomed into his family. He said he was so upset when he found out about my parents, admiring my strength and in amazement that I had gotten through that so well. Looking back.. I think he wanted to fix me as we often say. You know.. the classic Love avoidant-Love addiction relationship. Maybe I didn't need fixing then - I have a good job, I have money, I have an education, and in a way..nothing to worry about like he had. And when he realized that.. I didn't need fixing like that, but that I had other emotional needs.. he bolted?

I don't know. Paul's podcast is the first place I've ever learned about the love avoidant-love addiction relationship. Looking back, we tick so many of the requirements but we don't. I could live without sex, I'm perfectly fine with out but I was finally with a guy who made me feel good about it. I didn't feel ashamed with him. I felt on par with him, and I felt desired. He made the first moves on our third date.. to be accused of moving to quickly makes me so angry and so confused. Did he forget hoe he acted?! Did he forget how attracted he was to me at first? I don't know when things started to turn.. maybe only a month or two in.. shortly after he started staying over and I had a minor break when he was getting ready to leave. We had just gotten up and dressed and had breakfast and all of a sudden he wanted to go. It caught me off guard and I started crying. I felt like history was repeating itself because he had already started.. not being as affectionate and not as sexual. I had a flashback to a very traumatic breakup years ago that involved months of cheating and lies.. only to be labeled as crazy and having the police called on me when I kept trying to reconnect.

He said I was harassing him.. something he knows bothers me. I remember him asking him about my prior breakups a few weeks before ours and I didn't go into much detail because I didn't want to relive those events. I wonder if he was fishing for how not to do this or how to do this. I feel completely ruined, betrayed, used, lied to, abused by this man. I tried so hard not to repeat the past, to be caring without demands. Yes I wanted him to get a job - so I wouldn't have to support both of us in the future, not because I wanted Diamonds. Yes I wanted him to talk with his therapist about different treatments because I saw no improvement over the course of our relationship, but a subtle decline. Yes I told him his friend was probably a bad abusive relationship because he complained to me so many times, and then cried on the phone once after spending a weekend with his friend claiming that he felt trapped and that his friend was hostile and judgmental. Yes I wanted him to quick drinking because he admitted he had a problem.

He got so angry at me once for flicking water at him playfully when we were cooking! I was trying to be cute and have some fun. He got angry at me when I suggest he trim his beard along his jawline because I thought it would look better. I can see now how.. these could be taken as hostile because his previous girlfriends were very controlling and emotionally manipulative..

I feel like such a horrible person.. I am really struggling..
I had to switch to cymbalta recently from prozac because I broke out in hives but I have been miserable since. I see my nurse later this week. I will ask for a change.. thank you WD82 for replying. I did read your comments and I thank you for them. I am still very attached.. I just feel so betrayed because I had such hope that one day I would hear from him. I really care for him.. he is a great guy despite everything. I really want to find a support group..I'm just so scared.

Applecider, look at you, using your words. Good for you. I am proud of you.

I am happy, very happy, to see you using your words, and less happy that you are such pain. I am sorry you are suffering.

May I offer some thoughts, which you are welcome to take or leave?

(I'll also offer an update on makerspace afterwards, which you are also welcome to take or leave.)

In the most kind and gentle way, I suggest, perhaps, to consider the power of words. "Rapist" is a specific word for a specific action. While you may have done things you regret, and may not want to repeat in the future, I encourage you examine your conscience. We always need consent, and sometimes in relationships consent gets, um, squishy. Look at your actions soberly, but neither exaggerate or mitigate them.

To me, it sounds like you have a number of things going on. Sometimes it helps me to tease out threads, to see each one individually.

1. Breakup, sexual regrets.

2. Missing parents

3. Surrounded by their stuff

4. Generalized holiday weirdness (I don't see this explicitly in your posts, but I'll infer)

5. Dudes who don't/won't work.

Look, I'll be blunt: flicking water at someone is playfully flirty. That's the thing about flirting: objectively looking at the content it is abusive and weird.

If I may share a vignette: Back in the day I took my first gf out to dinner. Putting a little whipped cream on my fingertip I motioned for her to come in close. Seeing what was going on, she hesitated, but gamely stuck her face in. I of course put the dab of whipped cream on her nose. A waiter happened by right then and chuckled. Either I violated her person and dignity (touching her, having the waiter laugh) or the three of us shared a sweet little moment. (Spoiler: it was a sweet little moment.)

The proper response for your ex would either to play along with the water flicking (best done by pretending not to retaliate, then playfully getting you back a moment later when you weren't expecting it) or saying something like "You know, Applecider, this is really not the moment." I use this phrase at work, invariably followed up by reconnecting with the person shortly thereafter when my work-persona has returned. "Oh hey, sorry about my crabbiness a few minutes ago. What can I help you with?"

See what I am getting at?

A grown man needs to work (and yes, I know how hard un/underemployment is), trim his beard to the liking of his SO, and know how to playfully flirt. Sex is also part of the deal, with consent of course.

One last word-based distinction: I doubt you are a horrid person. You have probably done some horrid things. We all have, starting with me. But I suggest there is a difference between doing horrid things and intrinsically being a horrid person. A truly horrid person would never consider that they are horrid.

Just my two cents.

Off topic: Makerspace

Also, if you were such a bad person would I make you (and Manuel Moe) a Sketchup thank you?

http://mentalpod.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 636#p27580

Much as I like Sketchup, I found 123D Design and TinkerCAD even more exactly in my wheelhouse. I just ordered an inexpensive 3d printer that had lots of backers from Kickstarter. It also have several negative reviews, but I can't wait around for some fine day in the possible future when 3d printers are perfect; I could unemployed any day, and want to be ready! Yeah!

In honor of you, I'll go to the next local makerspace meetup. I think it would be hilarious if we happened to be at the same makerspace meetup. I'll send a secret signal to everyone I meet there, by working the phrase "Applecider" into every conversation. You'll know it is me, because I'll be the weird, quiet guy.

Not that a meetup would feature a weird, quiet guy.

Remember how I mentioned above that I struggled with un/underemployment in the past? Well, I have no plans on going back, so I am teaching myself whatever I can while times are good. Code? Sure. CAD? Absolutely. GIS? Heck yes.

Much as I enjoy teaching myself these things, I initially did them because it is extremely plain to me that a number of things aren't going away: webpages, apps, relational databases. 3D printing is going to change everything, I do not intend to get left behind in 2026 for a lack of trying in 2016. I can also see that water is rising in Norfolk and Miami. I am guessing that there will be an increasing need for GIS for sewers, pump, and water runoff.

To put these together: I hear they will soon be 3D printing houses. Well, why not create a 3D levee printer? What would someone pay to have a quick-setting 2 meter* levee printed around their house?

*(See how I'm already trying to get away from imperial units!)

Well, Applecider, I am sick and brain isn't working quite right after all that DayQil. I hope some of this made sense.

Hang in there.

Thank you Oak and again Thank you WD82. I keep revisiting your replies, reading them often through full body sobs.

There are so many things I want - For him not to think of a horrible person, for his family not to think of me a horrible person, to have my friend back. I think I want that the most.. I want someone to walk back into my life for once after so many people have left. I want to see his smile again and know that I made him laugh, for him to put his hand on my knee while he drives again. God I miss it so much.

I've never known what I've done to end relationships. So many of them have ended with me either being cheated on, or with them just.. one day switch flipping and walking out of my life. God.. One literally left me standing barefoot in January in my drive way begging them to tell me what the fuck happened, what was wrong, why they were leaving me.. and I never once got answers. No one could ever tell me an answer and all I ever get is this psychological bullshit about how I need to find myself or something.

I can't make heads or tails of what he said. I need feminine role models for nurturing and guidance? What.. do you mean by that? Do I need to wear more makeup? Do my hair? Act more like a lady? I told him when we first started dating that I can be lady-like and stuff if the Queen of England was around. We had discussed how his previous girlfriends were 'Princesses' and how he wasn't looking for that. I'm.. the total opposite of it. I impressed his older brother when I got out there and hauled hay bales with them! I enjoy farts and belches! I like disgusting skin things!

I need more people so I know that I am not alone in this world? I need to build a family to grow me? ...What do you think you were? You were a person in my life I thought would be there for me. Someone new that I felt safe and with, someone I could build a life with and grow with? Why did you introduce me to all my siblings, to your nephews, if you didn't consider me part of the family? Why did your family throw me a birthday party, Knowing I had no parents and had never had a party before?

Everything he has ever said is that I need people.. and yet he's just one more person who walked away from me. I am so tired of feeling unlovable, of feeling like the ugly one in a crowd, of feeling like the unseen. I literally go out out and I feel like a ghost. I feel like there is nothing about me that anyone ever sees..and then people like the cashier at the gas station.. go out of their way to tell me I'm really pretty. And I don't know.. how to take that. I say, of course, thank you. and then I cry in private later because.. Someone saw me.. for one moment, the fog cleared and I was noticed.

I don't want to be special, I don't want to be worshipped. I want to support someone and encourage them and make them happy. I want to be of service to someone. I want to flick water at them while we're cooking, only to turn my back and have them grab the sprayer from the sink and get me back ten-fold. That someone feels like it's all wrong though. I keep reading about how when you are co-dependent you need to focus on yourself.. but then I keep reading and hearing is that happiness is unconditional giving of yourself and being supportive and kind. I am so just so confused as to what I do.. what do I do to get better? And how can I shout it out to the ether than I am well so these people that I have loved come back to me? Will they ever come back to me? I am so tired of searching.. and


I am so lonely.

---------

I went to the astronomy group last night.. paid my dues.. was welcomed as a new member. I was the youngest person there. I felt.. so.. out of place. I fiddled with paper all night, fold and refolding.. only lighting up when talking about my art with folks. Yes I focus too much on my work.. but that's.. all I have right now. I paint carousels.. that's my life right now. I work and I come home and I take care of my dog and cat and I play videogames and I moderate a minecraft server and I like royal watching and reading history. I have.. nothing yet. My parents are dead.. I've had a hard year managing an estate.. I've not.. found anything yet. I just wanted to run away all night, hide in my car.. not be apart of the fold because I didn't know a single soul there. I was so scared.

I finally told my grandmother about how somethings even going to the store, knowing I'll be alone yet surrounded by people causes my heart to race. How sometimes I just have had it with the store and I leave in a panic, getting back to my car and just crying.

I need Tennyson back.. I need him back. He was a comfort..

Oak - I wanted to write separately and address the the 3D stuff. Thank you for the sketchup thank you. I am so very honored to have given you hope in that regards. I really hope that you find success with the 3D modeling. You remind me of my ex in that way. He taught himself marketing, web design, how to code and build databases. All these wonderful things.. but he wasn't willing to work in things not related to his job. Sure, he applied for jobs while we were together but nothing panned out, in the end he got a job cleaning.. and I thought as long as he had something bringing money in and giving him a reason for getting up.. he would improve mentally and continue to work on his web design. Yet he never wanted to go get any certification.. he dismissed and got so angry everytime I brought up perhaps persuing a GED. I remember trying to find out if he knew if adults without high school diplomas or GEDS could get into colleges (They can but I didn't know at that time) and he got angry and yelled at me.

You.. you seem like someone who knows you may have to work on things you don't want to get what you do want.. I really hope that works out for you. Wishing you all the best.

I know this will come as incredibly small comfort at this time, but given the tone of your posts, it seems you are at a point where you have the potential for some exponential personal and emotional growth. It seems like you were deeply entrenched in this individual to a point where too much of your own solace came directly from another person. I've been through some horrible relationships and a truly destructive marriage, and hit some personal hells when I left it all to work and travel in entirely new areas of the country. In losing so much, in taking so much damage to my ego, I made some beautiful discoveries about myself and my own strength. I am still a tangled mess dealing with anxiety, depression and substance abuse, but one that is so much more self-aware, and one that realizes I will survive the trials ahead. This is getting long-winded and preachy so I'm going to cut it short. Please stay hopeful, and as painful as it is, sit with this despair. Realize it won't kill you, and you can survive without this person. I'm not saying you should be alone, but try fostering the things you love about yourself, as well as continuing therapy. Find a group, maybe a mental illness support group to talk with others in a non-judgmental way. Keep talking. We're here.

WD82 - I contacted the local NAMI group and there is a peer meeting on thursdays. I am considering attending. I will speak to my therapist about it on thursday. I also believe my current medication is not working well for me (Cymbalta). I had been on Prozac but then I broke out in hives and we're not sure if it was the Prozac or another allergen.

I think part of why I am so affected by this breakup is because it is yet another in a line of failed relationships. This was my first relationship in over 4 years, and I had really high hopes for it. I felt like someone understood me. Yet I think he is also a codependent person or a love avoidant person. I wish I knew.
I spent the weekend freaking out, calling him and leaving pleading voicemails which I know is completely the wrong thing to do. I kept reliving the last really bad breakup - where my ex literally stood, staring down at me with his sunglasses on completely emotionless.. while I stood barefoot in the snow sobbing violently. Out of all my breakups, I have never gotten any answers from anyone. I feel completely rejected. I feel ugly, I feel confused. All I want to do is to make someone happy and to be happy with them.

I was listening to the podcast today, and the Ashley Burch episode was on. I think.. maybe that helped me? I.. haven't called him today,but I did write this to him.

"I finally understand.
I was not a good friend to you. I was not a good girlfriend to you.
What I took for support and encouragement was controlling and belittling. What I thought was helpful was demanding. I tried to live your life for you and in turn expected you to be my savior. That's why I wanted to go places with you, why I wanted you to help me with the things I needed to do around the house. Instead of hiring a handy-man or a contractor to do what needed to be done, ..I shouldered too much I went into myself and I drug you in with me. I expected you to fulfill the gaping wounds left by my parents and prior failed relationships.
I questioned you rather than trusted you. I did not return your affection when you gave it and demanded it when you were tired and hurt.
I am sorry that I hurt you, Tennyson.
I do not deserve your forgiveness and you deserve your peace. "

Completely the wrong thing I'm sure.

I just feel if I do nothing, I'm giving up, I'm surrendering.I'm saying you aren't worth the fight.

and... I want to give up this fight.

..Thank you for telling me to keep talking..and that I am heard. God I want to be heard..Thank you. I am trying to listen, I really am.

You are doing everything you need to be doing right now, the missing piece of the puzzle is being more compassionate towards yourself. You need love and understanding. You strike me as an intelligent, emotionally intuitive woman that is deserving of love, so embrace those things. Support groups will be great to enhance those abilities. You are not alone here, keep talking and we'll listen. Feel free to PM if you ever have questions you'd want answered more on a one-to-one basis. I'm not sure what wisdom I have to share, but I have been through a hell of a lot of destructive relationships myself and learned some things from them.

well, we talked. He was finally frightened enough by me to realize I was/am falling apart and that I needed to not be ignored. he ignored me in hopes I would go away, so he wouldn't have to deal with reality i suppose.

basically.. he just doesn't think we're compatible. I think that's a whole crock of bullshit myself but what do I know? what I think and feel doesn't matter. Doesn't matter that during our relationship, I questioned, I saw red flags, and I was hurt.. I think if something's broke, you try and fix it.

He went on and on about how he thinks we're so different. We're not, about how he just lost feelings. Couldn't pin point specific issues except that I'm forceful, I don't mind bodily functions (Burps are funny.), I'm so much more social than him.. basically spent two hours trying to... I don't know. Butter me up? Said hew as sorry for taking away a family from me.. addmited he did sort of want to fix me in the beginning, was overwhelmed and often needed to run home to decompress when he would spend the weekends with me (his own decision.. one that often led me to me being confused after we spent a great weekend together and he all of a sudden was running home). Talking on about how he wants different things.. he's all business.. I'm artsy. He wants to get away from his country life (I know he loved cities but he also really enjoyed his farm land.. just hated the work it seemed).. he says I was volatile, which I can be when I am stressed.. I can be reactive.. he was still angry at me for asking about his education and the prospect of getting a GED. He said he saw that I deleted my dating profile were we had met, that it had made him sad.. he kept saying how someone is out there for me, I just have to put myself out there, blah blah.. but the trutt is.. I don't like putting myself out there. I absolutely hate it. I hate it. I don't casually date. I don't even date. if I date you - I already like you and have developed caring emotions for you. That is just how I work.

I can't really remember it all. His psychiatrist has let him go which I find amusing. Tenn phrased it as letting him spread his wings.. I think about how I didn't think he was improving at all and actually getting worse during our dating.

Saw my therapist today, where we've been focused on making connections and strengthening my friend network, I told her today that I need to address this. I have been calling Tenn obsessively and texting him. And I am just so sick of it. I'm tired. So we talked, and we explored and I really need to understand that..I saw redflags, i had moments of unhappiness and questioning during our relationship and what I want. Things were good.. more than 90% of the time and everything I did came from places of good intentions, nothing but the best. I wanted someone I could grow with intimately and emotionally, and I tried. My therapist really.. saw that. That i gave it everything I could and even then some.

With her support, and because I knew.. I could be held accountable once I said it in her office, I deleted his number out of my devices. it's on a log of our wonderful conversations when we first met but that's buried under a bunch of shit right now and I have no intentions to go spelunking right now. I'm reminded of how.. he was a little weird ed out that I had printed that out, but I think that's because I hold memories in such high regard, I hold relationships in such high regard. I feel like everyone and everything keeps leaving me, so I hold onto what I can. I don't think he understands just what I've been through in terms of loss in my life, in not be valued.

It hurts so much to think that I'm never going to talk to him again.. I was so happy, and not because of him.. but I was happy WITH him.