YOU ARE NOT ALONE - A companion online community discussion board for The Mental Illness Happy Hour podcast with Paul Gilmartin

I went grocery shopping with my mother today and for some reason this brought up a million feelings that I can't find words for. I'm troubled. She is a nervous talker and this is the first time we've been alone together in a while, and she couldn't stop talking and I couldn't start. My words felt too big or too redundant or like they wouldn't reach her. I hate that I prompt this nervousness in her, I feel like my dad on his more sullen and judgmental days when I can only sit quietly and she interprets my silence as disapproval. She puts on an overly cheerful voice, makes as many jokes as she can, buys gifts, offers sweets, anything to gain approval, and I just want to put my hands on her shoulders and tell her she doesn't need her twenty one year old child to approve of her. I want her to be solid. I want her to feel less flighty, less trembly, more focused. It scares me to see her frantically trying to please everyone. I see myself in that.

She bought me a lot of clothes and gave me some alone time in the store to let me get them from the men's department (something she usually makes a fuss about), which prompted me to feel incredibly guilty and spoiled. I feel like I owe her. When I helped her carry the groceries into the house, she hugged me for a long time and said she wanted to know me but that she didn't know how to talk to me anymore. I didn't say anything, I didn't know what to say, just hugged her back and told her I love her.

I love my mom so much but I feel like i'm mourning her. With the pandemic, I moved back home from far away and this is our first time living under the same roof since I was a minor. I hoped maybe this would soothe how much I miss her when I'm away, but I seem to grieve just as much when I'm here and we can't connect like we did when I was younger. The troubling thing is that I don't really want to connect how we did then either -- she spoke with me like a counselor instead of a daughter, vented to me about her marriage, talked about sex, told me about the sexual abuse she endured as a child, kissed me on the lips and neck when I was far too old for it to be okay (which she still does now), would touch under my shirt on my shoulders, would grab my wrists firmly. I felt like I wasn't mine. She still has the same patterns -- the other day she pushed my shirt off my shoulder to look at a freckle. I think she genuinely was looking at a freckle but that doesn't change how exposed I felt, being made half topless without permission. With all that boundary crossing, I still really miss how good it felt to be relied on intimately. I felt mature, like my mom was my friend. Now I feel like we can't quite hear each other, like she reads so many unintended messages into my words, like I can't quite tell what her words mean.

I think some of this trouble also comes from my identity -- I am a visibly mexican butch lesbian. She is a straight white cisgender woman who still thinks of my "lifestyle" as a phase or a mistake. That is a really difficult gap to cross, especially when she wants to know me and I'm afraid if she did she wouldn't love me.

This is beautifully and elegantly written. I don't have any suggestions to help, your insights all seem really sound so you probably know all the answers, it is just living through that reality that is difficult. Take care, all the best to you.

Agreed with our dear friend Manuel Moe.

I am glad you shared!

I don’t have any advice, but I do send encouragement.

And men’s clothes are awesome. I wish I knew more about men’s fashion from Mexico. I’m sure it is very cool.

Wow this is rough. It seems like you’re the parent here. And ‘pressured talking‘ is the worst. And you’re being forced to fulfill any role she needs at any time just so you can keep the promise of the one you need, daughter. It’s probably not conscious but she’s using that dynamic to keep you feeding her. She’s not a bad person either, it’s just what has formed.

The task for you will be simple and hard. It’s to interrupt her. And to interrupt her amidst the fear that you might break the relationship. You won’t, you’ll simply force her to change and gradually assume the role you need more.

By ‘interrupt‘ I mean saying to her “stop”, suddenly and assertively, in the flow of whatever is happening. Even if she is saying and doing nothing, you can tell her “stop” to interrupt an habitual flow of silence, just so that you can rest. Rest that is, and not expend energy on coping with the anticipation of what she’s going to launch into next. It’s literally that, an interruption intended to allow you to rest. She’s exhausting you into compliance.

Over the course of your relationship now, if you discover one activity in which you’re simply the daughter and she’s clearly the mother - that you can slip into regularly - that will be healing.

But saying “stop” so you can rest on your own terms and start again at a point where you’re ready, seems to me like the most important task right now. It’s called ‘taking turns‘. Seems obvious right? Kids learn it young. But they only learn it if the parent knew how to do it.

Sincerely it will allow you to feel like your own adult. Which I suspect will feel like fresh oxygen.

Thank you Manuel, Oak, Beany, I didn't really expect how seen I'd feel in getting a response on this. I appreciate your energy. Just writing this all out and seeing other people recognize it did wonders to make me feel less "crazy".

I'm trying now to think of moments when our roles feel correct, when I feel like the daughter and she the mother. The times that come to mind are moments when I've been in crisis -- facing homelessness, a breakup, relentless anxiety. I'd rather not manifest those moments of crisis just so I can feel good about our relationship dynamic, so I'm searching for more mundane times that I've felt loved well by her. I'm thinking of days where we'd drive together with me asleep in the passenger seat and her listening to a podcast. Or today when I woke up and she had a pot of my favorite soup simmering on the stove (she makes amazing soup, don't know how she does it). When she packs up my lunch for work. A little misunderstanding when the store was out of our usual brand of half and half so I bought a different brand and she, thinking I just preferred that brand, started buying both our old brand and this new one.

The troubling thought that comes up as I consider these times is that, while these are all loving gestures, they are things a friend could do and not exclusive to things a mother does for her child. What I really want is some kind of proof of my innate worth to her -- proof that, no matter what kind of mess I make of my life, I'll still have value as a person in her eyes. Proof that she could love me no matter what I look like, call myself, who I fall in love with. This may be a flaw on my end. I don't know how anyone could prove something so big to me. Maybe I expect too much.

Hi resnullis,

I also don't have anything to advise about how to handle the situation with your mom. Just wanted to say that I'm sorry you're dealing with such a painful relationship. Some of your mom's behavior sounds like what guests on the podcast have described as emotional incest (your mom treating you as her partner or therapist rather than as her child). Please be as kind to yourself as you can, and don't blame yourself for the situation or your feelings about it.

rivergirl

Isn't it strange how certain people have the ability to make you feel like a kid again (and not in the good way)? My mom does this to me too. It's usually when she's playing the helpless co-dependent that needs her son to do everything for her. I feel like I'm right back at 14. The strange thing is, I didn't feel like a kid when I was 14 because of all the shit I had to put up with.

Wow, relate to a lot of this. Never sure how to harness the strong feeling of wanting more for my mother. Why can’t I love her as she is without hoping she’ll let go of all those nerves and worries??

I don’t think you are able to. Perhaps model that behavior yourself and she will see it’s possible.