I Can't Take It Anymore

Whether it is good or bad, talk about it here.
weary
Posts: 396
Joined: July 10th, 2012, 2:53 pm

Re: I Can't Take It Anymore

Post by weary »

And I wasn't allowed to have any feelings about it.

What a metaphor.
YES. Kudos to for recognizing your need to have those feelings and express them.
she doesn't think he will ever be able to be in a relationship with me that even remotely meets my needs. And she said this with compassion for him as well, knowing the challenges and issues he has. But the rest of our conversation had the tone of "now we finally get to stop talking about HIM and start talking about YOU."
Been there too, with my last therapist. I stopped seeing him because my wife was convinced that he was pushing me to leave her or set a final ultimatum, when really what he was saying was that. I still have issues in my current therapist and in my group of talking too much about her problems and what she did and how she reacted rather than getting to the heart of my needs and problems, because her actions/inactions drive so much of my turmoil (because I let them).
pattywhack13
Posts: 9
Joined: November 1st, 2012, 12:24 pm

Re: I Can't Take It Anymore

Post by pattywhack13 »

I still have issues in my current therapist and in my group of talking too much about her problems and what she did and how she reacted rather than getting to the heart of my needs and problems, because her actions/inactions drive so much of my turmoil (because I let them).
That's something I found myself doing daily with the people I care about, whether romantic or not. You are a person, weary, with issues that you're trying to figure out. Admittedly, I'm feeling reminiscent of my last relationship saying this (from which I still carry plenty of scars), but I know all too well how it feels when somebody has you feeling like a pawn. You aren't a pawn though, nor is she the all powerful chess-master. You are both human beings on equal footing in a committed relationship, which should serve as a bond of respect, patience and tolerance from both of your ends. Everybody deserves that those three things, and from everything you've said since the start of this post it sounds like you've been seeking that toleration and patience from your wife. I want you to know that you deserve it.

Wow, I didn't mean to get ranty, but that...ugh, I apologize if that was out of line. It's so poignant of an issue for me, though. I can relate so readily to feeling like I'm not important enough to make decisions for myself in a relationship that when I saw your post something went off in my brain saying "He doesn't deserve that. I don't deserve that. No one deserves that".

Sorry again if it was too much.
weary
Posts: 396
Joined: July 10th, 2012, 2:53 pm

Re: I Can't Take It Anymore

Post by weary »

Sorry again if it was too much.
It wasn't too much or out of line in any way. It was very nice to hear. Thank you.
The problem is the inconsistency, the lack of follow through, and the lack of accountability. We do treat each other with respect, tolerance, and patience to the best of our ability. The loop that I get stuck in is that I usually feel like when I express my needs and look for them to be met I am NOT treating her with respect, tolerance and patience, because I am not accepting her and her current limitations exactly the way she is and she feels "not good enough" - so for a long time I stuffed everything down. I have years of resentment, frustration and sadness built up and I am desperately trying to define and express needs and set boundaries, but it is really, really hard.
I want you to know that you deserve it.
The biggest accomplishment is that I do know I deserve these things and believe it most of the time. The problem is, how much of them do I need. Is it enough if she is doing her best to treat me with respect, tolerance and patience, even if my needs aren't getting met?
weary
Posts: 396
Joined: July 10th, 2012, 2:53 pm

Re: I Can't Take It Anymore

Post by weary »

May I ask? And you can, of course, not answer because it's too private and that's ok with me. But this is such a great, constructive dialogue.
What are your needs?
OK. Here goes. This is actually really hard and has been a stumbling block, which I feel embarrassed and ashamed about.
  • 1. Comfort, security, stability. Both physical comfort (a non-chaotic home to live in, comfortable places to sit and relax) and financial and emotional stability (not always feeling like things are precariously balanced, having to walk on eggshells, etc.)
    2. Autonomy. To not get sucked into other people's problems, moods and demands all the time. To not continue to sacrifice my identity to my wife and my marriage. To not feel guilty for doing things that I want to do, and for doing things alone or with people other than my wife. To not feel the weird connection that makes me feel guilty if I am not accommodating my wife's chaotic and disorganized schedule.
    3. To feel connected with others. To feel like I can be myself and express my feelings and have them be accepted by my wife as well as with a number of friends. Not to feel like I have to be a certain way to meet other people's expectations all the time. To have my feelings heard and understood and have other people connect with me as well.
    6. To feel loved and important for me, not just for what I do or represent.
    7. To feel like I belong - that I am where I am supposed to be.
    8. Sexual intimacy, excitement, fulfillment.
    9. Respect (including self-respect).
    The feeling that my needs, wishes, preferences are OK and other people can accept them even if they don't agree with them. To be treated reasonably and not put up with unreasonable treatment.
I know that I need to figure out how to do a better job of giving myself these things.
What do you want your partner to provide?
I want her to get her shit together and decide (at age 39) what she wants to be when she grows up already. I want her to take responsibility for her choices and behaviors and their consequences.
I want her to learn time-management and organizational skills so that I don't have to live in her physical and temporal chaos all the time. I want her to sleep and wake up on a normal schedule - shower and get dressed and leave the house like a normal person. I want her to pick up and organize her messes once and for all. I want to have a more balanced sharing of household responsibility - I am tired of being the only one who works and earns money and also the one who does most of the chores! I want to be able to depend on her to be a partner in our relationship. I don't want to be her parent - I don't want to solve her problems for her (and she doesn't want that either, but we are having a hard time breaking that dynamic). I want to have children, a house, dinner parties, a real Thanksgiving and Christmas. I want to do things with other people, not always just the two of us stuck in our messy apartment or going out to dinner. I want to have kids, but I want a competent, reliable, responsible partner to raise them together. I want her to give herself the respect she deserves by taking better care of herself mentally and physically.
What is not good enough?
RIght now? Tons. There are so many things that I have told myself for years that I can't stand anymore and yet they are still here. Her clutter and trash everywhere is not good enough. Her chaotic schedule and chronic lateness is not good enough. Her intense anxiety attacks and lashing out with anger are not good enough. Her constant emotional diarrhea is not good enough. Her interfering with my ability to get sleep is not good enough. The fact that we have been married for 13 years and I feel like I have missed so many opportunities for happiness, security, having kids, having a normal life because of her actions and her problems is not good enough. That scares me a lot - that even if she can change now (which I don't have a lot of faith in), that (1) some things, like kids, we have missed our chance on, and (2)I will not be able to let go of years of resentment and frustration for missing those opportunities.

Fuck.

I know that there is a lot there. I hope that answers some of your questions, Wildflower. I'd like to continue this discussion. We can do it via PM or in another thread or here. Thanks to everyone on here for your support. I am doing a little better these days in some ways, but still stuck in my head/obsessive/terrified/lonely. Part of me wants to rip off the band-aid and try to start my life over, but I think I am too exhausted and don't have the stamina or support to do such a thing. And I can't handle being the bad guy. And the guilt. And the fear that I will end up just as miserable and regret it because I will be alone for the rest of my life.
Wildflower
Posts: 8
Joined: October 21st, 2012, 8:21 pm

Re: I Can't Take It Anymore

Post by Wildflower »

I just wanted to tell you that I read your post. THANK YOU. That was so courageous and I thank you so very much for allowing us to have this dialogue. It's really meaningful to me and so important.

So... I am digesting. Need to read it a few times, let it marinate, before I respond. But I wanted to acknowledge that I read it, am thinking about it, am sending positive vibes to you and to all who ache and to whom what you wrote seems so, so painfully familiar. The part about wanting to host Thanksgivings punched me in the gut. I so get that. So very deeply.

It is my birthday today. You gave me a great gift - a meaningful conversation with a meaningful person. Thanks.

PS - Give me a few days to respond. I have some opportunities to volunteer (it's a little nuts in my city right now) and I'm not sure how it's going to pan out. I'll be back!
weary
Posts: 396
Joined: July 10th, 2012, 2:53 pm

Re: I Can't Take It Anymore

Post by weary »

Wildflower wrote: It is my birthday today. You gave me a great gift - a meaningful conversation with a meaningful person. Thanks.
Happy Birthday!
User avatar
Stina
Posts: 97
Joined: June 25th, 2012, 6:44 pm
Gender: Female
Issues: Avoidant PD, Generalized Anxiety, Persistent Depression, Social Anxiety
preferred pronoun: She
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Re: I Can't Take It Anymore

Post by Stina »

Thinking good thoughts for you, weary and Wildflower... Please keep this thread going because it's been helpful to me too. :)
~~~ Kristina ~~~
weird and broken
weary
Posts: 396
Joined: July 10th, 2012, 2:53 pm

Re: I Can't Take It Anymore

Post by weary »

Well, it's been over five months since I started this thread, and I'd like to say that things are much better. But they're not. And yet I'm still here (and I'm still stuck in mostly the same place), so I guess the original statement of "I can't take it anymore" was false, because I could continue to take it, and I'm still taking it.

Some things have changed - some for the better, some for the worse. Many things haven't. That list of wants and needs that is a few posts earlier than this is still largely unaddressed. I am getting better at trying to articulate more of them. I have really started to come to grips with how terrible my self-worth is and the scripts in my head that kick in automatically to beat me up. There is something good about knowing it, but something terrifying about not knowing how to make it better. Maybe I need to start venting/processing on here more often again. I'm in a lot of pain, but it comes and goes. I had a horrible meltdown yesterday and feel pretty OK today. Living like this is killing me.
SmartCookie
Posts: 35
Joined: February 26th, 2013, 1:43 pm

Re: I Can't Take It Anymore

Post by SmartCookie »

Weary,

New to the thread and just read the backlog.

You are incredibly brave to be taking the small steps that you are to improve the quality of your life. I was sad to read about the patterns of tension and dischord that you describe. I witnessed something similar in the communication patterns of my brother and his (now ex-) wife, and I was very nervous that they wanted to bring a child into that profoundly toxic and emotionally unsafe environment. Kudos to you for recognizing the importance of that and wanting to deal with your business before making the situation someone else's.

Your list of what you want really resonates. I hear you. I can't imagine that the list of any human being wouldn't overlap heavily with the things you mention you want for yourself, even though the specific details of how it manifests may look different for each of us due to our situations, background and tastes.

A lot of what you said you want from your wife sounded, erm, really familiar. In my relationship, I'm currently the one who is spending a lot of time trying to learn new patterns, trying to make an effort to get better. Part of the reason is because my issues have been getting so profoundly in the way of my work that it's really affecting us financially. But my partner is slowly coming around to wanting to deal with his own issues too. We're a little different — my partner just bottles up all his objections and at some point in our relationship stopped talking to me. He told me that the other night and I had to acknowledge the fact that I haven't been a very good listener for him. Since I am doing a lot of taking stock, one more thing to add to the list doesn't seem like much.

I think there's an important thread here about blame. Society loves to tell us to blame things — usually external things (because it means they can sell us other external things), but we are also encouraged to blame ourselves, and we often learn to do that from when we are children. That, I think, is why intimate relationships can get so stressful — because blame tends to dig the holes deeper, not give us the strength to climb out. And we need our partners to climb out of the holes that they are in too, and we are often the ones in the best position to see what hole they are in (which they may have conveniently forgot they had to get out of). And we need the strength to get out of our own holes. To stretch the analogy even further, we are calling out in the dark to hear the voices of our beloveds to stay encouraged. And when they treat us with anything but respect and loving kindness, they're just throwing shovels at us. And when we fall into our habitual ways of thinking, we're picking them up and digging, becoming even more numb to the sources of our strength that aren't rooted in anger, bitterness or pain. All those things we actually need to be healthy and whole.

I was recently fortunate enough to stumble upon a recorded lecture at the library (the main source of excitement these days — healther than Netflix, because I have to walk there, and generally more insightful). The lecture features Pema Chödron, a Buddhist nun, and the topic was Unconditional Confidence. What she means by that is actually unwavering friendliness towards one's self. It's easy to be friendly towards ourselves when things are going great. But our souls need us to be gentle when things are going crappy, because change can't come from the angry voice. The angry voice is that of the thinking that got us there in the first place.

I'm trying really hard to not be an external manifestation of my partner's angry voice. He has taught me so much in the time we've been together (7.5 years). I probably often was his angry voice at the beginning of our relationship. He's modelled sensitivity to me. I still fall into it sometimes. But the biggest gift he's given me has been the space as I've looked my own fear in the eye. He could have gotten really angry at me and he would've been completely within his right. But he never has. It doesn't mean our relationship doesn't have other issues, but I think there might be something there for you — especially since you mention you want your wife dealing with her own baggage.

I think language is a big part of it. Another audiobook I read talks about the concept of counter-will — that human beings instinctually don't do well with being told not to do things, because it generates resistance that ends up manifesting in other negative ways. Something tells me your wife is running from her own issues and is giving into treating you the way she has because of fear of what she thinks will happen if she puts aside the pattern of interactions she's had with you (or that you are serving as a handy, nearby distraction from those issues). It's very hard to untangle the idea that her fear is not external if she has too much invested in that narrative. But the counter-will concept is really important if you are asking her to make changes, because she has to want and understand them to make them happen for herself.

Maybe a short break — even just crashing on a friend's couch for a day or two during a long weekend, whatever distance you can achieve in what probably sound like money-constrained times — might give you both each some space to do some of this work on yourselves. (And if she doesn't think she has a problem, come back and I'll tell you about my parents sometime :twisted: )

We're already awesome, we just have to remember it more often.

Best to you,

SmartCookie
weary
Posts: 396
Joined: July 10th, 2012, 2:53 pm

Re: I Can't Take It Anymore

Post by weary »

Thanks for your post SmartCookie.

I have read/listened to/watched a lot of Pema Chodron over the years, and I agree that her position is a good one. There are a lot of helpful authors out there coming from that Buddhist/mindfulness direction, and I have gotten some benefit from many of those (though it obviously hasn't been quite enough to make things better yet). I'd be happy to suggest a few other books/podcasts if you really liked that one.
my partner just bottles up all his objections and at some point in our relationship stopped talking to me.
That was me for years. And I slip back into it now because I feel like I don't have the right. And I feel like I get the crap beaten out of me emotionally.
I'm trying really hard to not be an external manifestation of my partner's angry voice.
Can you clarify what you mean? Do you mean to be that manifestation for real, or for it to seem to him like you are that manifestation.

It has been a terrible weekend. Another weekend of fighting, yelling, crying where we both wish we were dead because it would hurt less. We both have a shitload of work we need to get done tonight, and I am just completely brain dead. I went through two periods - about midnight last night and late this afternoon - of getting so angry that I broke down crying, if that makes any sense. So intensely upset, and I end up collapsing in a puddle and sobbing so heavily I felt like I couldn't breathe. I'm such a fucking mess. We both are. And I feel like I lose every time. We both end up getting so battered emotionally, and I don't even know which end is up anymore. Everything is so confusing. She is angry at me for things that happened years ago and anything will trigger an angry flashback. She is afraid that I am going to leave her, and she keeps behaving in ways that are guaranteed to make it happen. She wants to connect with me, wants me to be honest with her, but she doesn't listen and gets angry and defensive and mean. She says she doesn't want to control me, but she flips out when I try to get support from other people by texting because she feels like I am going to cheat on her and leave her. I feel so emotionally manipulated, abused and drained right now... and I know that if she knew I was writing this she would be furious and say how dare I act like I'm the victim! I lost my shit this weekend because she lost her shit first and just kept pushing and pushing until I couldn't hold back any more... and then I'm the asshole and it's all my fault. And all her problems and all our problems always come back around to things that I did, and how much she's hurt, and how hard she's trying, and how unreasonable I am. It's bullshit. I'm tired. I hate hate hate it. I still love her and I'm terrified. People have been telling me to move out or at least stay in a hotel one night for years. That I need to set a boundary to extract myself from these situations when they happen and get some distance from the things that she does/doesn't do every day that upset me. But I can't. I'm weak. I'm afraid. I'm pathetic. I'm guilty and ashamed. She threatened to leave and go stay in a hotel twice this weekend and I panicked both times and begged her not to go. I don't even understand why. I'm afraid of what will happen if one of us leaves, even for a night. If I left, I would never hear the end of it, and I would be bludgeoned with it whenever we had a fight about anything. There would be no turning back.
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