Sex,love,marriage,babies,porn,strippers,reality/fantasy

[weary]

I've got a lot of problems - problems in my head, problems in my life, my wife's problems that I have to deal with. I've written extensively about many of them elsewhere on here. I'm feeling the need to focus on some that center around sex, though I am really afraid to do so. It's complicated, because they're not just about sex, they are reflective of bigger relationship issues as well as other fucked up things in my head. I have a lot of anger, guilt, shame and sadness about these issues, and I have a very hard time talking about them, especially with my wife. I'm just going to try to lay some things out and see how it goes.

I love my wife - we have been married over 12 years. But she and I both have serious issues with anxiety, depression, self-worth and have developed very dysfunctional habits that have messed with our lives.

• Right now she wants to have sex constantly (though we have had times in the past where we didn't have sex for months and months at a time). We probably have it 2-5x a month, down from almost every night a few years ago, which was up from only about once or twice in the previous year. She has fucked up sleep and is rarely in bed with me at night (usually up late or all night and sleeps late, often during the day, usually on medication).
• I usually want to have sex, but I often don't feel like having sex with her when she wants to. Sometimes it is just being tired or both of us not being in the mood at the same time, but a lot of it is a lot of unresolved anger and hurt towards her that I can't express. I don't think I'm being passive aggressive and intentionally withholding sex to punish her (though she accuses me of that regularly) - I think it is just hard to shift myself into that intimate and vulnerable mode with her sometimes. She also can shift gears much more quickly than I can - from a fight or major depression/anxiety attack to sex, whereas I can't recover from a negative emotional experience to get to the place where I feel like having sex with her as fast as she can. Sex actually helps her feel better and makes her feel closer to me after a fight, and sometimes I think she picks a fight so that she can get to that closeness. When I am unhappy with her sometimes I don't even want to look at her.
• I watch porn and masturbate often. Not always daily, but close to daily, and sometimes multiple times a day. I don't think it is an addiction or a compulsion, because I can go periods of time where I am busy or distracted or whatever and not do it for a number of days and I don't feel like I am craving it or going crazy with withdrawal or anything. However I think it is a prime way to self-soothe depression and anxiety (one of few that is foolproof). I have had this relationship with porn since high school, but it really kicked up after college (facilitated by the internet, of course). I've brought it up with my therapist and he doesn't think it is something to be concerned with on its own, but in the context of everything sometimes I feel bad about it.
• I mean, I have a woman that loves me that wants to have sex with me all the time. Isn't that what every guy dreams of? And it's not that I'm not attracted to my wife, or the sex is just vanilla or boring. There is some kink and excitement, we sometimes watch porn together, and share some really dirty fantasies from time to time (which I may need to talk about at some point too).
• But I fantasize about having sex with other women ALL THE TIME. A few specific women but also just women in general.
• But it's not just about the sex. I want the romance. But more than that - I want certain qualities in a woman that I don't feel like my wife has right now and might never have. I want that superwoman who has a profession/career, likes to fuck, wants to be/is a great Mom, and is a responsible equal partner. Somehow, that is what's sexually attractive to me even more so than physical appearance. Confidence and competence.
• We have no kids. I want kids. She says she wants kids, but will she ever get her shit together to be in a place where she feels like she can be a parent, let alone get pregnant? The window on that is closing age-wise. It's hard to even talk about. Our life has been going from one drama-filled crisis to another since we were married. There's always something in the way. Things are more financially stable for the moment, but that could change. We're both fucked up in the head, but I'm working on it. She's on a bunch of medications that she would need to get off of to become pregnant, but she's nowhere close to even functioning with the medications, let alone without them. But this is something that is really important to me in life and has really affected how I feel our sex life and sex in general. I am very turned on by the idea of getting her (or someone else) pregnant and going through the whole process of pregnancy and birth, above and beyond just wanting to be a parent and have a family. There have also been historical struggles with her being irresponsible with her birth control or me being responsible for pulling out as a form of BC over a long stretch of time (which made sex into a weird endurance and focus challenge rather than fun).
• I also fell in love with a stripper a few years ago, and had some kind of relationship that I even now have a hard time describing. Was it an affair? My wife thinks it was. I didn't sleep with her. But it was an emotional affair, and it was cheating in some way. Did she really have feelings for me, or was she using me? I don't know. I need to talk about that situation and how it factors into things as well.

There's more, but this is a ridiculously long post already and I doubt anyone has had the stomach to read this far. I'm sorry for blathering on and on. I feel like there's a lot here (just like there's a lot in other areas of my life). Please bear with me. I feel lonely, guilty, ashamed, and unworthy and I spend too much time shoving down these feelings. I want to be wanted and not needed. I know that I should just be really happy for all of the wonderful things that I have. I'm sure that it's hard for any of this to make sense without some of the other context of my wife's problems and why things are difficult in my marriage. I don't know what's OK to feel, to think, to want, to need. I don't know what's realistic or reasonable. I just don't know.

[oak]

Weary!

I read every word, and was happy to do so. It was not too long. I encourage you to write as much as you want.

As a male cisgender kinsey zero (ie a straight dude), I identified with much that wrote about!

I think there is certainly a place for healthy erotica and ethical pornography. Like your therapist, I see little to nothing wrong with a little self-release.

As far as desiring all sorts of women, it is common for me, and I think most guys.

Tough love: if you have to ask if a stripper* was using you, you probably have your answer.

As far as fantasizing about getting your wife or other woman pregnant, you are certainly not alone there. "Creampie", which suggests impregnation, is one of the most searched pornmd terms.

As far as your mental health, your wife's mental health, your guys relationship, and whether you guys should have children: as a single/never married/no children rake I can offer no advice, but I do send hugs and wishes for healing.

Also, yay for kink.

* I think they prefer the term "dancers". Definitely outside my sexual wheelhouse, though.

[Leebeeboo]

Monogamous sex in long term relationship is tough. I worry about maintaining desire in my marriage of 11 years. If she's not sleeping in the same bed with you regularly, I'm sure she's missing out on a lot of potential sex. I understand weird sleep schedules, but even when I'm having bouts of insomnia I will go and lay in bed with my husband until he falls asleep just to share some physical closeness (caressing, cuddling) even if it doesn't lead to sex.

I don't think you're being passive aggressive. Even when married, you have the right to not want to have sex, doubly so if the request are coming at inconvenient times.

On the subject of strippers, I would highly recommend reading Bare: The Naked Truth About Stripping by Elizabeth Eaves. Yes, she was probably using you, especially if she has been stripping for a reasonable length of time. The book tells Eaves' story of how she went into stripping as a sex positive person and came out the other side jaded and distrusting. It's a pretty interesting look at the psychologic toll stripping takes on women.

[weary]

Thanks oak and Leebeeboo.

Leebeeboo:
The sex problems are more of a symptom of the other difficulties in the relationship. I still find her attractive and enjoy sex with her, but there are so many other fucked up things in our relationship that have gotten harder and harder to ignore that affect my mood and my attitude towards her.

Regarding whether the dancer was using me or not (didn't mean to use a pejorative term; she used it sometimes in a self-deprecating humor sort of way). There is a long story to tell that I would like to get into, but not tonight. We made an authentic emotional connection and became good friends over time before there was any romantic/sexual tension other than the obvious context of her employment. I wish I had met her somewhere other than there, because having her as a friend was really nice. I do know that she opened up to me about a lot of personal issues and kept others hidden, was honest about many things but not everything, but we developed a lot of trust in each other. If she really wanted to take advantage of me financially or otherwise, she had many opportunities that she didn't take. I was connected with her as a human being, not a performer or a sexual object. We spent most of our time together sitting and talking.

I have more to discuss/vent about these issues but it is difficult. I feel guilty/ashamed.

[weary]

See http://www.mentalpod.com/forum/viewtopi ... =20#p12821 for more of a description of the underlying problems in the marriage.

As far as desiring all sorts of women, it is common for me, and I think most guys.

I feel like it's shifted for me - it's not just about sex (maybe this is the wrong thread, then). I used to see an attractive woman and think about what she would look like naked or sleeping with her (like most guys do, and probably a lot of women too). It's more than that now - I see a movie of the whole thing in my head - romance/dating/marriage/settling down, having a house and kids and love. And it's confusing - because I have some of those things with my wife but I feel like some of them will never be there, and that fact almost poisons the things that are there. And yet I feel like I have no shot at ever getting those things from anyone else either.

I am also attracted to different things about women than I used to be (a sign of maturity?). It's much more about someone who has confidence and self-respect and is active and proactive than being about a pretty face and a nice body. Brains are important, common interests are important, but I am really attracted to those women who have kids, a job, take care of their home and family and still manage to have a life/hobbies/interests. I am attracted to someone who has their own solid identity, who doesn't need to be taken care of or fixed, but who is willing to be vulnerable and give help and receive help. It is kind of embarrassing, but that is what happened with the dancer. She had four kids and an alcoholic husband and was (like me) the person that felt like it was their job to keep things together and meet everyone else's needs while ignoring her own and had a hard time asking for help. We connected on that level and after becoming close friends, opening up to each other, and sharing pain and earning trust, an attraction and sexual tension began to grow. I had (and still sometimes do, over two years after the last time I saw her) silly romantic fantasies/obsessions - not about being her white knight to come in and save her and take care of her, but about us saving each other and taking care of each other in a balanced and mutual relationship. Leeleeboo, that book sounds interesting, and she talked about (and I observed) a lot of that. On one hand, she found that job empowering and she derived some strength from it. She was able to let her guard down and be vulnerable with me, though, and I could tell that sometimes the job really took a toll on her.

Now, most of the time when I think about that situation, I feel like a sad, pathetic, sick person. My wife will probably never forgive me, and what I did has her constantly fearful that I will leave her for someone else. Even though I do believe that there was some mutual connection and attraction with the dancer and she wasn't completely using me, I doubt that she is still carrying a torch for me this much later (she did divorce her husband six months after the last time I saw her, though), and she would probably be a little shocked and horrified that I am still obsessed with her in certain ways, and that she has become this presence in my marriage as a lighting rod for my wife's insecurity and rage. If I had a dollar for every time my wife has threatened to find her or go to her house and graphically described the physical violence that she would carry out, well, I would probably have at least ten dollars, anyway.

[weary]

"Creampie", which suggests impregnation, is one of the most searched pornmd terms.

Erhm... I'm familiar with that genre. And pregnant porn. [/TMI]

It sometimes feels sick and pathetic. I am attracted to women with kids. Not in a sexual way - in a whole-hearted "I love this aspect of your femininity and womanliness and strength" sort of way. Sometimes when I see a dad with his small kids or a family all together, I get really sad or angry/resentful/jealous. I have two awesome nieces, and I love seeing them and spending time with them, but sometimes I also get really sad afterwards (Why can't we have our own? What's so wrong with me/us that I/we can't get our shit together to do that?).

My wife and I had a big fight in January where I was trying to assert myself and set boundaries and make her accountable for herself and some of her behavior, and her defensive reaction to that ended up being threats to tell her family and my family about the stripper (two years after the fact) and to "have my nieces taken away from me" since my sister in law (her sister) would not forgive me for that. And I folded (as I usually do when she gets upset enough and I run out of steam and resilience), and haven't pushed that particular boundary again. I really do love my wife. I wish we didn't feel crazy and act crazy and make each other feel and act crazy all the time. I wish I wasn't so much of a coward and conflict avoider, so I could really directly express the things I need (like in the thread I linked above) to my wife in a constructive and diplomatic and non-blaming, non-shaming way, but figure out a way to stay strong through the inevitable conflict and not get worn down, and set some real boundaries and consequences for things that I was man enough to follow through on. Just writing that makes me anxious and ashamed, and makes me feel like a selfish prick.

With the dancer, I became close friends with and was emotionally connected with (and physically attracted to) her before I knew she was a mom, and when I found that out, saw pictures of her kids, etc that just kicked things up to a much higher level in terms of emotion and attraction. I am extremely embarrassed and ashamed to admit the fact that I have read some of the social media postings of her oldest daughter (who is in high school), and she is in so many ways like the kind of kid I always thought my wife and I would have - in terms of attitude, interests, etc - which reinforces a lot of the judgements/assessments I made (that I had convinced myself were convenient fictions) about what kind of mom/person the dancer really was/is. I have never admitted that to anyone yet. Makes me feel like a big old creep and a loser. Just like everything else.

[manuel_moe_g]

weary,

I wish you wouldn't be so hard on yourself. You have an emotional longing, and that explains your actions. People can't control their emotions, only their responses to emotions, and your actions seem to be just to give yourself some emotional shelter so you can regroup. Maybe you could have acted differently, but your actions all seem consistent with seeking to fill an emotional longing and seeking some emotional shelter.

I wish things were different for you, because you don't deserve this pain and uncertainty.

All the best to you, take care.

[weary]

I wish you wouldn't be so hard on yourself

In general, in all areas of my life, I have trouble with the following distinctions:

"Being too hard on yourself" vs. "Holding yourself accountable" or "Owning your shit"

"Having compassion for yourself" vs. "Making excuses" or "Coddling yourself" or "Letting yourself get away with shit"

"Being nice" vs. "being a doormat" or an enabler or making other people's feelings/wants/needs more important than your own.

People can't control their emotions,

I wonder if anyone else who has seen Star Trek Into Darkness felt a twinge of envy when Spock explained to Uhura (and later revisited with Kirk that he chooses not to feel in order to avoid the pain of negative emotions? "You mistake my choice not to feel as a reflection of my not caring while I assure you the truth is precisely the opposite."

seeking to fill an emotional longing and seeking some emotional shelter

The thread that links all of my various problems.

[weary]

I feel like a disgusting pig sometimes. I have a wife who loves me, who wants to have sex all the time. But her behavior drives me crazy. She does things that upset me, she doesn't do things that I want and need her to do, she drives herself crazy and doesn't take good care of herself. I still feel taken for granted.

I have a really strong desire to go to a strip club, get some lapdances, and look at (maybe touch) some tits. I haven't been to one in over two years, and there was only a short period of time in which I even did that at all. I know that it won't be emotionally satisfying to do that, but it still feels like it will do something to relieve stress. I also know that if I did it, I would be royally fucked, because it would not be OK with my wife (understandably) and she would hit the roof, and I can't lie to her and try to sneak around and hide it like I did before. So I just have to keep it all in my head miserably like everything else.

I have a really strong desire to contact the dancer that I developed a strong friendship with and crush on and was seriously contemplating leaving my wife for if I knew that she really wanted to be with me. I miss her smile, and the warmth of her hugs, and her scent, and the softness of her hair, and her laugh. I am disturbed by the fact that so long after the last time I saw here, I am still obsessed with her - still have fantasies about what kind of wife she would be. I feel like such a sick fuck sometimes. She probably didn't even care about me at all. But it felt like she did. And I was happy when we spent time together, so does it even matter if she was faking some of it? I don't even know what I would say to her really, and I'm not sure she would be happy to hear from me. I think she has moved on from that temporary career and has some of her life back on track. I just want to sit down and have a cup of coffee with her. Those nights I spent hanging out with her were the happiest I've been in 10 years, even when we were just sitting and talking.

I have another female friend that I have confusing feelings for sometimes. It's not exactly primarily physical attraction, but I'm not unattracted to her and I could (and do) certainly imagine being in an intimate relationship with her. She is a little more appropriate in many ways than the dancer, but what they have in common is they both embody many personality traits that my wife lacks and that I really feel like I could use in a partner.

I have a funny feeling that with both the dancer and with this other friend, I have a fucked up circuit that's firing in my brain. I have had female friends over the years, but like most of my friends, they have been kind of kept at arm's length - I haven't opened up that much, been vulnerable, been the real me. With these two women, I have been, and I have connected with them on that emotional and authentic level, and that feels fucking good, and it has been mutual to some extent, and it feels like love. The trouble is, I don't have a box to put "female friend love" in. So if I feel love for someone, and they are female, and they are not a relative, then the only option left is the "potential romantic/sexual partner" box. I think my brain automatically goes there, especially since I have so many hurts and anxieties and dissatisfactions with my marriage and the problems that my wife has and whether or not things will ever get better.

I know my wife is not 100% responsible for the problems in our marriage. She has her problems, and I have my problems. We have both done things that have fucked ourselves up and things that have fucked up/hurt the other person. We are both working on things and trying to grow. I am just really scared that it's never going to be OK with her. But maybe it would never be OK with me and anyone, because maybe the problem is me. No matter how bad things are, I can't hurt her by leaving and I will never be able to do better than her anyway. I guess do I stay miserable and lonely and childless with her, or be miserable and lonely and childless and divorced and guilty and ashamed?

My therapist talked this week about visualizing goals as a necessary step to achieving them. I can see what I want - a job where I have security and respect. A house, with comfortable furniture, a piano, a yard, a dog. A couple of kids. Friends and a social life. A wife who has her own life, career, interests, hobbies, friends, as well as the ones that we share together. Who has her shit together. Who is an equal partner. Who pulls her weight. Who respects me and herself and is easy to respect. I just don't know if my wife is every going to be that person for me.

[oak]

Weary, an important post. Thanks for writing, and thanks for your honesty.

Some thoughts, as I read.

Well, if you desire to go to a strip club, consider that this would displease your wife.

You may want to consider what is causing you to desire to do this? What is the underlying urge?

(I will set aside my deep reservations about monogamy, since you are already married.)

As far as staying in your head regarding your sexual desires: usually "staying in one's head" is bad, but we can also live a fantasy life there.

Ready for some tough love?

(Consider that I am a single, never married man, but I do date alot. Feel free to take or leave anything I say.)

Sexually and emotionally it is way bad news to focus on this dancer from a few years ago. In fact, there is a term for what you are experiencing: she is your "oneitis". While it is natural enough to develop a oneitis, they are a bad road.

The fact is, my friend, that you are married, and presumably did so voluntarily. Thus, your wife is your sexual partner. You two promised, likely, to only have each other sexually for the rest of your lives.

(How this makes any sense to me, that one person can satisfy all of another persons needs forever, is unfathomable to me.)

Again, as far as fantasizing about the dancer as your wife, you promised in your wedding vows to not act out that.

As far as not having a "friend zone" for an attractive female, that is very very common.

I am glad that you are asking these tough questions of yourself weary. I am sorry you are feeling pain, on the other hand.