Starting on Relationships Late

[manuel_moe_g]

In practice:

[1] I dropped my ego - this was very painful, me seeking professional help at 25 felt like a repudiation of my whole prior life

In practice: I let go of the desire to manage other people's image of me, so people could see my failure clearly, giving me freedom to ask for help and to fail. I soaked in the message that my priorities were 180 degrees wrong, so the things about myself that I felt were valuable and special, I allowed myself to see those things as worthless. I relentlessly crushed the idea that I was special - from now on my worth would only come from the results of my hard work, even if those results were so very small and pitiful

[5] I developed myself so I was a less needy soul, and I had some resources to draw upon to be able to give in a relationship

In practice: I took seriously that I would never have the relationship that I desired, so I made my goal to be giving to a lady that I was interested in - emotionally giving and complimentary and supportive and interested and aware. But I would need to take long breaks between attempts, because my introversion made such stuff really taxing on me. So I would work on being a warm nice person, and doing stuff outside of my comfort zone, mainly social stuff.

Really, I crushed the idea ruthlessly that a relationship with a girl was going to save me, and that I would have to save myself.

I don't want to get too preachy, because I am so incompetent and I still am a strange guy. I probably got lucky with the relationships that I presently enjoy - my wife is a ball-buster and she is always nagging me and criticizing me. But we have intense moments of connection, so I must be doing something right. My dream girl that would always support me and boost me up - I crushed the fantasy of that dream girl coming.

I have no idea if I am doing anything right, because I am battling depression, anxiety, and unstable-mood at the same time. All I can do is try to be honest.

[cyanidebreathmint]

I really appreciate how much work it must have been, and it seems like a real transformation.

I don't think you seem incompetent at all.

I'll try and mull it over and see how much of that stuff applies to me. Certainly a lot of it is good practice for anyone, really.

[rxtravaganza]

Finally, someone broke the ice on the relationships section! (I almost did it once then I lost my nerve. I wonder why this section is so empty?)

Anyway, I completely relate, cyanidebreathmint. I had never been in a relationship longer than 5 months when I met my would-be-husband, two months before I turned 26. Up to that point, I'd had probably 200 one night stands with people I'll never remember, and a few brief dating experiences with some very nice people who hadn't signed up for the kind of volatile behaviour I had to offer them. I really wanted love and I had no idea how people had it but I desperately wanted to fall in it.

I only became available to beginning a relationship when I confronted the reality that my entire concept of a relationship was based on an abusive fantasy I was manipulated with over 6 months when I was 12-13 years old. I was the target of an internet predator who created an alter ego of a teenage boy who became my "long distance boyfriend", which at the age I was believed to be an accurate representation of mature love, but was really just a paedophile using me as cyber and phone-sex wanking material. So when you say "relationship based PTSD"... oh, I feel you.

This made it impossible for me to have an idea of how to enter into a normal, healthy romantic relationship, especially because I had to push the experience so far down and deny it completely in order to survive. Sometimes someone in my family would make a joke about it, and that would just set me on a course of even deeper denial.

When I finally opened up and said, yes, this happened, it was fucked up, it wasn't okay, I didn't deserve it, it wasn't real, that's when I started to become aware of relationship reality. I understood that they are so much more about human comfort and the way two people can talk and just be around each other. I am learning every day though, so I can't say I can give you any great advice about how to get into one now.

I will say this: I met my now-husband just over two years ago, and we've been married almost 6 months. (I know in this modern age that seems fast, but it feels like a lifetime to me.) How did it happen? I guess completely by luck. I met him in a bar, the same bar where I had once worked and carried on an illicit, two month affair with an emotionally abusive coworker. Somehow this same disgusting place I hated brought me together with a person I completely adore. But it wasn't easy - there has been turmoil to understand each other, there has been shouting, crying, a couple of panic attack related trips to the hospital, and I made breakup threats a couple of times.

Ultimately, we are just two people doing the work to be together and waking up and deciding each day to continue doing that work because we love it. I used to say relationships shouldn't be work, but I've gone back on that now. Relationships shouldn't be a JOB. They shouldn't be laborious and gruelling and thankless. They should be like a career you love: something you pour your heart and soul and creativity and imagination into and then you can tangibly see and enjoy the results with another person.

But I feel the same way about the relationship I have with myself, and I couldn't do the work with my husband if I didn't do my own work as well.

[letteggs]

I'm 29, and have never been on a date, never had a relationship. I've had sex once, and that was five years ago in an incredibly drunken encounter that I only remember bits and pieces of.

I've tried online dating sites, but when guys ask about my past relationships and I have nothing to tell them about, they run the other way, or else they try to talk me into "meeting up and hanging out" in the middle of the night. I don't want to be seen as someone's project, or an experiment.

One of my best friends always tells me that she wants to see me be happy, and then goes on to nag me about how I don't know anything about relationships or what it takes to be in one. I don't get it. Would I love to have someone in my life? I would absolutely love it. Do I go out looking for it? No, because I don't like going to bars by myself, and I don't even know how to react should someone come up and start talking to me.

If there is one thing that I ABSOLUTELY HATE TO HEAR, it's "You'll find someone when you least expect it." That is the ultimate worst thing someone can say to me, in addition to, "What is wrong with you? How can you have never been on a date?"

[cyanidebreathmint]

rxtravaganza,

that's really cool that you're doing the work and enjoying the work with your husband. i can't imagine how painful that must have been for you, to be used by that person when you were so young, and then to be mocked for it later. jesus.

i really hope to be in a similar place some day, and your story gives me hope that it's possible.

letteggs,

i think you and i are maybe most similar in the romance department. my experience was also a drunken mess, and once.

but i don't even really try anything at all to meet people. for a long time, i just thought it was my nature to be alone forever. i often become really swayed by the idea of what's basic and natural being a sort of pre-deterministic course for life. so, relationships aren't natural for me, therefore i often think i don't get to have them, or i don't deserve them. i'm not really outside this frame of mind, really, either. i'm just starting to look at it.

i get confused, because i am a big proponent for gay rights and trans rights, and so many people's stories are loud and furious and often with the message that they were born with this orientation, this strong drive that became apparent at a very young age. but i don't relate to that at all. my sexuality isn't obvious to me, and i feel kind of broken and, frankly, stupid for it. i admire people who feel it deeply, and who fight for it for themselves.

i probably have a perfect storm of relational issues that are causes my current rut.

-self-hatred
-social phobia
-difficulty trusting and maintaining trust
-maybe there's something wrong bodily, i dunno

i'm very glad to hear the ways everyone has addressed their own issues with relationships, though.

growing up in the family i did, there are no problems with thinking relationships should or could be perfect. i don't expect others to be perfect, i more expect myself to be perfect for others, so i could deserve their attention at all. i also know that's impossible, but i guess i don't know how to bridge the gap between knowing something and change?

[letteggs]

I went out last night with some friends from school, and as things go, we started discussing relationships. One of the girls is engaged, the other is in a relationship but is not happy with it, and then there was me, who has never been in a relationship. Now, my friend who is engaged knows about my lack of a relationship history, but the other girl, when I said I've never been in one, looked at me and asked "Why not? What's wrong with you?"

Why do people always assume there is something wrong with me for not having dated? In high school, I wasn't allowed to date, and I found out later that this guy who was pretty much stalking me had threatened other guys who expressed any interest in me. College, I started battling depression, and was not social at all. Then I started working retail loss prevention, and couldn't make friends where I worked. I've tried online dating, been rejected by EHarmony twice as one of 4% of people in the U.S. they can't match with anyone. Other free sites I've tried, I've had friend's boyfriends/husbands help me with my profiles, to no avail. I can talk to guys, I'm just not attracted to the guys I know in a way other than just being friends.

I think I should just maybe become a nun...HA

[sdjustinr]

I'm 28 and have been in one relationship, six years ago. It lasted six months and ended badly. It was hard to learn just how infantile I was and still am in certain ways (ie: having little or no regard for the other persons wants or needs, mostly because I was totally unaware of my own wants and needs). He e lobbed said truths at me and shattered my ego. It was actually quite traumatic. However necessary it was for me to see the real me, I don't think I have the fortitude or the resources to carry myself into another relationship. Or as I like to think when i'm feeling self-pitious, "I don't want to inflict myself on another person."

For me, it's not even really on the radar. Though I get lonely a lot and tend to fantasize about being hugged or touched by or connected to another person, I don't want to give into the temptation just to end up treating someone else as badly as I have tended to treat myself. If I can reach a point where I'm confident in my ability to take care of and acknowledge my own wants and needs (ie; acknowledge myself as a worthy human person), then i'd be open to doing so for someone else.

Otherwise, it will just end up being another one-way street.

[Mister_Man]

I identify a lot with what others are saying here, like a desire for perfectionism, being undeserving of even the attention of others let alone love. Like sdjustinr, I often fantasize about just holding someone's hand, or a hug or being in proximity to someone who isn't squirming to get away from me. I also identify with the people talking about relationship-PTSD, my first relationship ended with my gf publicly humiliating me at a school dance and that shut me down for a long time. I suffered awful depression for most of my life before and since. My most recent and serious relationship was with an abusive addict and she committed suicide... I've dealt with abusive and abandoning parents, one died and the other just kind of floated in and out of my life for most of it. I feel like I'm staring up a giant, steep mountain that I have to climb over just to see a future with other people. What Manuel says about "not deserving" something resonates with me, I know that's probably a healthy attitude but the fantasy that I do deserve something special despite being unmotivated and self-centered (I'm trying to avoid too much negative self-talk) is so appealing.

It's been almost 5 years since I've REALLY tried at a romantic relationship but like others, I fear disclosing my lack of experience or the loaded nature of it. I fear I may be gay, or asexual (probably just the depression and avoidance). I'm also terrified to ask for any kind of help, like a friend or family member to set me up with someone or give me a job or introduce me to their friends because I KNOW that I'll do something to ruin 'everything' and then I'll just be right back where I am so I might as well not even bother as the result is a net 0.

[norskheks]

I'm a "late bloomer" too, emotionally at least. I grew up believing that I was unlovable, and unfuckable, literally. I didn't date or flirt or kiss in high school because that just wasn't something I did and it certainly wasn't something anyone was interested in doing with me. It was just something I thought about all the freaking time, which I was also indirectly taught was abnormal for girls. I remember once towards the end of high school playing a very innocent alcohol-free game of "Never Have I Ever" with girlfriends, and I was the only virgin to admit that I masturbated. The only other girl who admitted it said that it was just to entertain herself "between guys" that she had sex with. Thus I felt like I had no good excuse. Were my virgin friends lying? Probably. Was it still humiliating? God, yes. Teenagers are DICKS.

My first kiss/sexual contact was with a female friend, who I've never had romantic feelings for, at age 25. It started after we both joined an online group of mostly female friends who are very open about our sexual fantasies with each other. Since I fantasized about being dominant and she fantasized about being submissive, and we were both horny virgins, we figured that when she came to visit me, we might as well try and act it out, just for fun. It was fun, and it was nice not to feel any of the social pressure of relationships and stuff because we were doing something so unaccepted by society at large in the first place. And I was honestly amazed that the sight of my naked body didn't make her nauseous.

After she left (we're still good friends but live far away from each other), I made an OKCupid account, out of curiosity and a love of answering the questions they ask to create your "profile". I guess the way "normal" people do online dating is they make a profile that looks nice, talk to somebody and go on a date with them, and the talk to someone else and go on a date with them, and there's a lot of dates involved. Yeah, I didn't do it that way. I was totally open and honest in my profile and put all my ugliest cards on the table. I chatted with a few people for a while until I found someone I really, really liked and felt comfortable with, and after talking online for about a month, we decided to meet in person. That was about 2 and a half years ago, and we're still dating. I'm so happy with my boyfriend because even though he knows everything about me, he still loves me. He doesn't judge me or look down on me because he's the only man I've ever had sex with or the only person I've had a romantic relationship with. Even at the beginning, he was never didactic or patronizing about sex, he never acted like he knew better just because he'd had more sex than me or more relationships than me. I was still able to teach him what feels good to me, what I like to do, how I like to relate to people, just like he did with me. Even though we discussed sex and admitted attraction to each other almost right away, I guess we were technically friends first. I guess we've always been friends, but we've always been more too. I don't know if I'm explaining that right. Basically, I've still never really dated, I've just been lucky enough to fall in mutual love with someone.

I think if someone doesn't want to accept the truth about you, that should be a warning sign that they're not good for you, that it's not a healthy relationship. And even if you're sexually/romantically inexperienced, you still have qualities to bring to the table and things to teach your partner (still hard for me to believe now, but I try). I also think we're taught all these things about what sex and romance are "supposed to" be, but they don't have to be that, they can be anything you want them to be.

I still have trouble directly asking my boyfriend for sex or sexual specifics. I'm still clinging to that old idea that I "knew" even before I knew what sex what, that good girls don't do it, and don't want it, unless they're using it for emotional manipulation or want to have a baby. And that only people who are beautiful enough to be in magazines are eligible for non-baby-making sex. Sometimes I want to have sex and he's playing on his cell phone, but I don't feel like it's my place to interrupt, and even if I did, I wouldn't know what to say. I don't know how to propose sex... sexily. lol... I also still, on my bad days, think I should dump him because he deserves better. He has depression too, and we went through a couple of months recently where we didn't see each other at all because of both of our mental, emotional, and financial issues. But we were able to work on our relationship and make progress as we work on ourselves too. My fear of rejection is still very active, and it really fucks with me. At every bad turn, I think, "This is it. That's the end of my chances. He's done with me now," but he always surprises me and has never wanted to give up on our relationship. He never acts like he wants to, but I always just assume that he does, because why wouldn't he. I know I really need to work on that. It really helps that he's willing to give me time and space to do so.

[ticktock]

Well I can definitely relate to a lot of what's been said. I'm 30 and have never even kissed a girl, much less been in a relationship or had sex. I was teased and bullied a lot in high school and it left me feeling like me being in any relationship was a joke, not to mention I have a big social anxiety when it comes to approaching new people. I just assume most girls I would approach would think of me as some creepy "stalker" type, so I don't even bother. My love life has been basically a series of crushes that have never gone any further than some fantasy I have. I realize in retrospect some of this was because I was too picky and maybe being too concerned with girls out of my league or girls I'd have nothing in common with who I liked just because they were pretty (I was a teen, now I'm trying to be more open).

It didn't get any better for me in college, where I was constantly overwhelmed with my workload that I just didn't try. Part of me assumed through law of averages something would come my way, but those thoughts have dwindled exponentially each year as nothing continues to happen. Looking around at other couples, I'd think "If those people can get together, why can't I find someone?" There were some girls I think may have been interested in me, but I was either too scared or too baffled in their interest in me (ie, the Groucho Marx joke where he wouldn't want to be in a club that would have a guy like him as a member) to pursue it. It's hard not to think I have some fundamental problem that's keeping me from doing what a lot of people seem to do with no problem.

Since I dropped out of school it's basically tapered off to even less than it was. I've been drowning in student loan debt and trapped in a McJob for the better part of a decade, never getting a promotion, not even getting full time. Now I'm unemployed and oh, I'm living at home with my mom and step dad (Ladies?) I just can't justify looking for romance when my whole life had gone to hell (I also wonder if I'm subconsciously self sabotaging to keep from looking). It's been over six years since I left school and my love life is as dormant as ever. I don't even try. I'm not a drinker so the bar scene makes no sense to me, and I live in a small town so social events that appeal to me are rare. I don't even try online dating because I feel like I'm reinforcing the stereotype of the weirdo who can't find a girlfriend in the real world so he has to go online to find one (even though plenty of regular people meet online these days). Not too long ago someone wanted to set me up with a friend of a friend of my sister's and I recoiled with dread. I often wonder if I've been single for too long and will never be able to adapt to functioning as a couple. It is a big fear of mine having to break the news to a prospective partner; worrying about how she'd bail because my lack of relationship baggage is my baggage. Part of me would rather her think I sucked in bed rather than I sucked in bed because I'd never done it before.

And oh yeah do I hate the "everything happens for a reason" or "it happens when you least expect it" jackasses. They think they're being helpful when they're really giving lousy "advice". It's easy for them to say that since things worked out for them. Tell me "everything happens for a reason" when it turns out your husband was deep in the closet and your marriage is a sham or spend years or decades without having sex and feeling alone while everyone around you is pairing off, getting married and having kids. Yeah, anything could happen, and I could meet an amazing person tomorrow, but when I have years of that not happening, it's hard for me to have much faith in that.