Episode 199: Joni G

[Jimmy]

This woman sold hard drugs for 30 years and profited immensely from her endeavours. I can't even begin to imagine how many lives she helped ruin in that time. How on earth am I supposed to empathize with a sociopathic parasite of this magnitude. In a just world, this woman would still be in jail.

[andmore]

I wonder if Paul didn't know this guest personally if he would have listened back to the interview and thought differently of giving it to the audience. Not that I object to someone with her story being a guest. It just seemed, particularly near the end of the interview, she was a lot more interested in speaking feel good platitudes than reflection on what effect her actions had on those around her (i.e. her family), or in a more balanced approach at least.

I can't judge her character of who she is now. I think it may be a challenge for quite a few people to empathize with her just on what her lifestyle was alone. When someone who has chosen to go through that lifestyle and doesn't exhibit much remorse talking about these things, it's foreign to a lot of us. It doesn't mean she hasn't changed. One explanation could be she didn't cover all the bases of how she feels. Or maybe that just isn't in her to feel that way so at least it's an accomplishment she's reformed, IF that is the case.

I would like to hear the topic of the first person account of an ex-con brought up on the show again in the future because it's interesting and potentially educational. Maybe though, someone who has gone through some sort of restorative justice program for instance, where they've met with a crime victim. Or even just someone who can tell about where they've been and where they are now in a more down to earth way.

[marzipan]

I also had a hard time empathizing with this woman. They glorified her lifestyle far too much, and Paul's throwaway comment about not wanting to do that doesn't change the fact that they did. I disagree that "it's OK because she sober now" especially because very little time was paid to the devastating effects of addiction and, as y'all said, the damage that she must have caused (whether people died or not).

Plus she's a white lady so it was infuriating to hear her talk like she was hot shit for "getting away" with it for so long.

"I was just interested to see how people live without it" does not seem like a great (much less inspirational) reason for getting sober. Maybe she's just acting cool, and she actually does feel remorse. I don't know. But as told here, this didn't seem like a very helpful story. I hope that someone got something more positive out of it.

[IdentityPoltergeist]

I just kept thinking if this was a black man, he'd be in jail for life or put to death instantly... And for a lot less. I agree with your in depth analyses, completely unsympathetic and she seems completely disconnected to the people who hurt (and I didn't like how the lifestyle was glamorized, it sent a bad message IMO). I didn't ever get a feeling of understanding why she even went down that path in the first place or any sincere sense of regret about it. I'm not even sure why Paul would associate with her, not because of what she's done, but because she doesn't seem to put a lot of thought or feeling into other people. And if the topic centered on what it's like to be a sociopath, I would find that more acceptable. Unfortunately it wasn't.

This one just rubbed me the wrong way. At some points it enraged me.

[Pathologic]

I happened to really enjoy this podcast and thought Joni was an extremely fascinating guest. I can see some of your points, but:

1) Personally, I don't really think of an individual drug dealer as being responsible for 'ruining lives.' The drug trade, in general, sure - but an individual dealer? It's not like an addict is going to not find a way to get high just because one particular person isn't working as a drug dealer. It's criminal behavior obviously, and drugs themselves ruin many lives themselves, but it's not like there's a shortage of drugs in our country and that if this particular dealer hadn't gone into 'business' then suddenly the supply for cocaine would have decreased significantly.
2) It's absolutely true that if this was a black man, he'd be in jail for life. But that's a pre-existing injustice on a societal level, not one that Joni 'enacted' in any way. It doesn't mean that Joni is a bad person for getting out of prison. As she says, she went there because she deserved to - it's not like she's pretending what she did wasn't wrong. The black men who face disproportionate sentencing for the same crimes as Joni don't 'deserve' it any more than she does, but unfortunately the system treats them as though they do.
3) As far as 'glamorizing' the lifestyle? I mean, that's a problem that runs a whole lot deeper than this podcast. There are lots of aspects of our media and culture that make criminal activity seem badass and exciting and I appreciate that Joni and Paul spoke to the audience like adults who can think for themselves and not like people that constantly need to be reassured that crime doesn't pay. I don't think we're all potential drug kingpins lying in wait for someone to make drug-dealing sound cool.

[Jimmy]

"As she says, she went there because she deserved to - it's not like she's pretending what she did wasn't wrong." It took her 30 years before she stopped dealing hard drugs. This woman was unrepentant for 30 years. If she knew it was wrong she would have stopped well before that. She is a hardened criminal in my view and she should have gotten life.

[Pathologic]

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose. I generally find it more useful to point to the structural factors that make drugs such a devastating part of our communities than to point at individual dealers and decry their misdeeds. And of course the criminal justice system's treatment of drug offenders does at least as much damage to our communities as the drugs themselves.

[rivergirl]

My impression was that Joni & Paul weren't glorifying her former life but more describing her thought processes at the time and the thought process of many people with destructive addictions, like "Look at me, I'm getting away with this" when in reality she was at considerable risk of being killed and was also living a life that was completely spiritually bankrupt and destructive to herself and others. If drug addiction is going to be viewed as a sickness then it seems like dealing to pay for your habit is the ultimate extension of that sickness. Maybe her remorse could have been discussed more but I got that from things like her expressing gratitude at now being given a chance (which she perhaps feels she did not deserve due to her former life) to help other people including addicts and women who are suffering with cancer. I do see how the interview could come across differently to others though.

[Jimmy]

@rivergirl That was a much, much better defence of Joni that what that other poster said although I still feel there should be some accountability if you get into big time drug dealing. This woman didn't just deal small amounts of drugs to satisfy her habit while she lived in squalor. She imported kilos of hard drugs into the country repeatedly and lived high on the hog for 30 years. This wasn't just about drug dependency, this was also about greed and incredible callousness for the lives of others for an extended period of time. I'm all for giving people with drug problems second, third and tenth chances, but not when they hurt people on this type of scale. She was a BIG TIME drug dealer not some local jane who was just feeding her habit. Everyone who is defending this woman should ask themselves if they would be so tolerant if this was a man. I seriously doubt it.

[Terri1955]

I am surprised at the posts regarding Joni G., although she was a drug dealer for 30 yrs or so, and didn't seem remorseful as stated in one post, for those 30 yrs she was a user as well. Of course she wasn't remorseful at the time, however I do feel like she is now. Joni speaks from her heart, and is matter of fact about her past. I think we owe Joni G a huge vote of appreciation for her candor, her experience, and her willingness to humble herself.
I am not condoning her past, but what insight to what she experienced during the dark times. I think she and Paul joking during the podcast, was only because she made it to the other side and is living a different life now. You have to laugh about the dark times, or you will lose your mind! I am not disregarding the fact that she sold drugs to people and may have helped to ruin lives, but whom ever bought the drugs by their own choice.
Give her a break! I would be first in line to shake her hand and give her a huge hug!