Subhuman

[manuel_moe_g]

OK, I am in a tough place, so any help would be appreciated, because it is hard for me to navigate around human personalities (I am professionally diagnosed as on the aspergers and autism spectrum)

[*] This board cannot be a place where we discuss fully the option of suicide (methods of suicide are absolutely forbidden, people posting just before attempting or strongly contemplating suicide will have their posts deleted and replaced with suicide-prevention links)

[*] Talk of suicide can be triggering. It will be impossible to make this board non-triggering or an absolutely safe place, because the podcast is itself triggering, and this is a place to speak openly and frankly and it will be difficult to enforce or add trigger warnings on everything that could trigger. Maybe just trigger warnings on talk of suicide? Suicide can be a special case.

[*] A person saying they might commit suicide can be used as a weapon, which is even more escalated than triggering

[*] But this is a place of open dialog, and making people feel their own feelings are heard and validated and that they can feel not alone

[*] Keeping communication open is paramount

[*] This board itself cannot deal with suicidal people, and we know that

[*] What Paul says goes, but he is busy with running a professional, popular podcast as a full-time gig

[*] I am sympathetic to the idea of people contemplating the possibility of suicide, and it is hard for me to be fully impartial, because I think about it too, I admit, because of I am often ambivalent about staying alive myself

[*] but they way I feel right now is that nobody should commit suicide, because it is a decision to never be able to make another decision again [!!!]

[*] but this board is not about turning people away or stifling people

[*] the stuff above contradicts itself, so between a rock and hard place

What I am going to do now.

[1] Keep this thread open

[2] try to put trigger warnings on key parts of this thread

[3] not delete any replies

[4] not take action against anyone

[5] I reserve the right to take a hard stand against talk of suicide, because I don't/shouldn't make the rules, and the top of the page is a rule

[6] I will note that nobody is in immediate threat of committing suicide

[7] I reserve the right to not be consistent about how I deal with suicide, because my thoughts on suicide change back and forth

[8] if Paul says different, Paul's decision will stand, and will become a moderation rule - right now no hard fast moderation rules besides http://mentalpod.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=10003 which does not specifically mention triggering and suicide-talk

Phew. I feel spent.

[Domino51]

manual_moe:

no worries.,,this is my last post. As for triggering people, dealing with triggers is the individuals responsibility; not mine. In an effort to not put anyone in a difficult place...I won't post anymore.

fargin:

If you were an alcoholic, would you ask all the owners of a liquor store to move their business, because it's triggering for you?? You are accountable for yourself; that simply is not anyone's job.

Best of luck to you Moe.

[Fargin]

I'm sorry about taking this thread in this direction and I'm sorry I put you, Moe, between that rock and a hard place.
I'd also like to apologize to you, Domino51. I got triggered and carried away. I've said my piece and I'll leave it there.

[failbot]

I think writing helped some, at least for a bit. Yesterday was better. I even exercised a little bit. Today I'm back to feeling lifeless and numb.

I wish I saw a way out of this, but I don't believe I can get better. Nothing I've tried has worked and I don't think anything will. I think I'm going to keep wasting my life until things get so bad that change is forced on me.

Every day is the same. I can't stick with anything that would make my life better. I know you need to put in consistent work over a significant period of time, but I still get discouraged and quit when things get hard or boring. That's why I'm not good at anything. If it doesn't benefit me immediately, fuck it. I've known children who are more disciplined. I wanted to exercise again today before I ate breakfast, but instead I wasted away the entire morning sitting at the computer.

Look, I know I'm too hard on myself, but I don't know any other way to be. I can't just let myself off the hook. I hate myself. I don't feel that I'm worthy of love. I can know that I'm as worthy of love as any other human being, but I can't make myself feel it. I really do fear that I'm severely defective and that I'll never change--that's what I was trying to get at with all my melodramatic garbage about being subhuman. Because it's true that some people never change, right? I could be one of those people. I'm not exempt from that possibility.

I feel so alone and I feel like nothing can help me. I'm sorry, but I do. I can hear and read that I'm not alone over and over, but I can't feel that. I was listening to the Laurenne Sala episode yesterday and Paul said some people would rather just be miserable than get out of their comfort zone (that's a paraphrase; I apologize if I failed to recognize or express the sentiment he was trying to get across). I think that's me.

When people talk about their recovery I feel like an alien. I don't understand how people just do shit. I don't do anything. My guitar needs some frets that need to be fixed, but the idea of taking it to a shop and then having to go pick it back up again is so daunting that instead I just don't play it. If something so small and dumb is too much for me, then how the fuck am I supposed to go initiate a life-changing conversation?

[manuel_moe_g]

Hi failbot. It doesn't seem possible but things can change. Your current limitations might be just of this particular time. I went through a breakdown at age 25, and since then, year by year, I do things that the year before I didn't think I could ever do. The problem is that change can be slow, and we are so impatient.

[rivergirl]

failbot, I just wanted you to know that we're still listening. you can keep posting here any time, and even if every message doesn't get responded to, there are people who are reading and who relate and some of your messages will get responses. The issues you're dealing with sound much deeper than a lack of "discipline". It's like saying you lack discipline if you can't walk on broken legs. But it's easier to beat yourself up for mental illness or issues because they're mostly invisible to other people. You're not broken, just hurt and in need of healing. It's not going to be one life-changing conversation, but a long process that starts with tiny steps. Sending hugs. rg

[failbot]

I don't know what I want or who I am. Nothing makes sense to me. I don't understand how I can feel okay for a few days and then just plummet. As soon as I think something might be helping it stops working. There are no answers, there is no help. Assholes say suicide is the coward's way out, but what's really cowardly is to know there's a problem and not do anything about it. I'm a coward and the biggest piece of shit. There's no point to this. There's no point to anything. It's all a sick fucking joke and I hate it.

[manuel_moe_g]

You are not a coward and you are not a piece of shit. You have a disease that affects your thinking and judgement. The disease is telling you lies. You are an articulate and worthwhile young person, with real potential, even though the disease makes you feel otherwise. You are not alone. Keep the lines of communication open, all the best.

[Sherlock]

failbot, I'm saying this as someone with a very dysfunctional and mental illness (and mental illness-denying family): REACH OUT TO YOUR FAMILY.

If they are good people, they will already KNOW you're in some deep shit right now. That you NEED help. They probably don't know what to do for your because they don't know what your problem is and are afraid to broach the subject--you are an adult, after all.

If you come to them and tell them what you're feeling and say you think you need some therapy, they will probably breathe a HUGE fucking sigh of relief like, "Thank goodness, we have an answer and he wants help!"

Also, all this talk about you being in your late 20s and being old? ... In the nicest way possible: nonsense. Paul didn't realize he needed help until he was... in his 50s I think he said? I'm in my early twenties and had a therapist who's a recovered alcoholic who praised me for recognizing my problems so early in my life. The earlier you get help, you will be MUCH, MUCH better off than people who take decades to realize they need help. You are so not a hopeless case, even if you think you're naive--that you only have a GED (are there community colleges in your area? because they will take you), that you don't have a driver's license (it's never too late to learn), that you're a virgin (newsflash: nobody cares but you, and I'm totally serious about that because I used to carry that same guilt around me, but seriously, if you meet someone in the future and you two are compatible, it will NOT MATTER).

Think of reaching out to your family as your goal. You are not burdening them by asking for help: think of it like this. Would your family rather have a son who hates himself, has no job or ambition and is overall obviously miserable, or a son who is working hard to become healthier and who will grow and learn along the way? Yes, even at your age, I already know the answer to that question.

Also about the no friends thing: consider what you like. If you're adhedonic, what you used to like. How did you used to make friends? That will come at a later time, but then, there are also support groups that can really help you out.

You are so not a piece of shit and none of your posts here are worthless. You are you: I don't know what you look like or how you act around people, but just reading your post, your articulation of words (no matter how negative they were--pishaw) shows you are a valuable human being. You have worth because there will never be another you on this Earth.

And I very much know the feeling of the old you being lost; I experienced that very much when I had a psychotic break. I went from feeling so smart to thinking I was the dumbest person on the planet. But you know what? Therapy, good therapy, is like looking through the wreckage: you find those important pieces of yourself again. You'll probably be better than who you once were because of this pain you've been through.

So think VERY hard on the family thing instead of dismissing it. Again, all families, even dysfunctional ones like mine, want good for their kids: I'm certain they've seen your behavior and know you need help. It might be hard coming out about it and expressing it, but I have a very hard time thinking they won't do the best they can to support you.

Best of luck to you. Try to treat yourself nicely in a healthy way; think back to who you once were and all the things you used to like and do, and all the things you'd like to do in the future. I realize sometimes we need to live in the here and now, but I feel like having all three states of mind--where you once were, where you are now, where you can be--is also a worthy philosophy.

Take care.

[Sherlock]

ALSO NOTE: therapy works best when you are comfortable with your therapist and when you listen to them. Don't just take anyone. Take anyone who when you leave your first session, you already feel elevated. Best advice I can give you on that front.

And if you find you need to go down that road: Psychiatrists and meds work best when you listen to them and follow your medication regime. If you find they are a quack, leave them and find a non-quack who doesn't throw things at you at random; always ask what the meds are for, especially in the beginning.

It is a HUGE CHALLENGE but you know what? I've relapsed once already from my therapy by getting into drinking: even in that stage, I knew I wasn't giving up.

Being in recovery is like being a fucking warrior. You are challenging yourself and your way of thinking and being, the monster you've created in your head. You are fighting a beast of a disease.

THAT ALONE makes you feel better: that you are working on it. That you don't give up. That if you take a hit and fall down you still recognize the beast for what it is: not who you are, and not undefeatable.

Sorry if that all sounds corny but it just occurred to me that for myself, my therapy helped me recognize that I'm not the problem, I just HAVE problems, and they aren't impossible to conquer.

Remember the other choice is submitting... I know what it feels like. Believe me I do. I can say for certain where I was last year was like... a completely different person than who I am this year, and again, I haven't been doing miraculously. I also thought I was incurable because I had a psychotic break down or that I'd be sent straight to a mental hospital if I went to a therapist, or even funnily enough that I'd just be told I was lazy and needed to work harder--therapists never do that to you. Their job is to put everything in perspective and help you realize you are totally not a piece of shit but in fact a human being with natural needs and a working mind.

Anyway, sorry for so much cheerleading over therapy, here. Obviously, your post moved me.