Wow, I was in a bad place in 2013 & 2014

[manuel_moe_g]

Reading my topic posts from 2013 & 2014 on this very board --- Wow, was I in a bad place!

That guy I used to be slept a lot! And hated himself for it. He was also suffering from bouts of depression that were very strong.

Now I am a bit sorrowful because I was cast into a life where chemical depression was deeply and intensely felt very often. It is OK to be mournful and sorrowful for the situation I was placed into.

I wonder what the difference between now and then was? Is the difference because of improved brain chemistry? Is the difference because of improved tools for dealing with life? Both?

I wonder if I (knowing what I know now) _really_ could have helped that guy I used to be?

I guess it is OK because I was going through pain that was going to have long-term gain on the other side. Still am!

[brownblob]

If you are in a better place now, you have already helped that guy.

[manuel_moe_g]

Thanks for reading and replying, Brownblob.

If you are in a better place now, you have already helped that guy.

7 years, though! ( )

I wonder what I would have thought back then if I knew it would take 7 years to crawl out of a hole just to arrive at the bottom of another hole. It is still definite progress, don't get me wrong. Patience is the key, I guess.

If I am blessed with another 7 years of life, where will I be?

Oh, well, keep chugging along...

Take care, Brownblob

[oak]

Manuel Moe: such a lovely post. Thanks for sharing.

My thoughts, as I read:

Thank goodness you made it: some people with depression didn't.

Regarding sleep, as I am finding out daily in this quarantine: it is it's own thing, man. There are some powerful subconscious forces at work as to when we sleep or not. I encourage you and me to extend ourselves some grace as to our unconventional sleeping habits.

As to *why* you are doing better, allow me to hazard a guess: perhaps the larger society has become more welcoming of diverse kinds of mental health, and there are more ways to improve our health, since then. One example: nowadays I have a smart TV. Is my mental and physical health better now, now that I can view tai chi and stick fighting tutorials on my TV? Yes.

Our society (and I'm thinking of identity broadly, here) from restricted and calcified and "We don't talk about that!" (no joke, my mother said that to me two weeks ago: she is still spending enormous energy on trying to bury "family secrets". Can you image?) to a more expansive, fluid, accepting idea of identity, including mental health.

As to your final comment, that it was okay to go through the pain: yes, it was. And for all of your (and my) faults in 2013, that person got you here.

Thank goodness.

[manuel_moe_g]

that person got you here

heart-renderly true. i can't deny it.

thanks, friend and brother. you see clearly as usual.

[brownblob]

Sometimes chugging along can be an achievement. I know that may not be the answer you want, but sometimes that is all we get. In your other post, you talk about your heroes being the ones who focus on the grind and the work. Maybe this is our grind.

[Beany Boo]

It feels like you are harboring a crippling amount of shame. ‘Goals and dreams’ and ‘moral warrior‘ are attempts at trying to get a rational handle on it. Because there doesn’t seem to be a rational reason for it. It’s just there.

It’s a biggy. The biggest. And a lot of men face it, ill-equipped. If you can face it you probably end up a leader.

It’s okay to have crazy stimuli for feeling so much shame. I do. And you don’t have to spend any time wrestling with why. Just put it down to ‘it’s happening baby!’

You’re fully entitled to accept crazy, or ‘trivial’ reason(s) for your shame feeling. Shame is a natural reaction to something that can’t easily be accommodated by the mind or the body. Shame is a part of you. If you can take your foot off the pedal, and learn your own way of navigating shame, you will have ‘triumphed’ in the grand way you’re talking about; at least in my esteem.

I can only offer some clues. Choice moments of vulnerability help. You are ‘enough’ if you can eat, sleep, wash, communicate and show up. Also, other people will never be ‘enough’... and connect with them anyway. Not that helpful I know.

[manuel_moe_g]

Hello Mr. Boo,

Yeah, the voice in the back of my head says "be ashamed of what you are, Manny Moe", "hate yourself to turn yourself into a better person, and if that doesn't work, turn up the hate". it isn't always is a loud voice, but it is a very persistent voice.

rationally, i know self-hatred only leads to break-down and collapse, same with deep shame.

[Beany Boo]

I could add a few thoughts.

You’re probably carrying several generations worth of shame. You’re carrying a lot of stuff you’re not responsible for in other words.

Also, it was probably modeled for you that you were the only one in the world feeling it that way, to that degree. There are a lot of people who believe they are the only one. I just want to let you know, you are not the only one. You’re not alone.

I could say more but that already feels like a pile of bricks.

[Heatherwantspeace]

Manuel Moe, I don't know if this will help, but at some point recently I decided the distinction between the me of the past and the me of the present is meaningless. I only ever exist as the me of now. It's helped release a lot of "I should be..." and "I wish I had...sooner".
Recognition that time is a construct that can bring us a lot of grief.
Heather