4 x 4, what I am working on right now

[snoringdog]

Hello Manny,

I can certainly relate to the "jumble of thoughts and feelings" part.
It's been a struggle with that for me, for the last two days....

Before that, I was feeling pretty good, then Bam!
(I've been neglecting some of my self-care-on-rising habits for whatever reason, and some daily stressors have been knocking the wind out of me).

About the depression comment- maybe she misinterpreted what might be an autism-related "bland affect" you presented at that moment, where maybe your tone didn't match the words you were saying, or her expectations then.

But it does sound like she was concerned, and you might want to expand on it a bit with her, like you're doing here....

And maybe she *is* a bit depressed. These are certainly *are* depressing times if you're paying attention, no?

Wishing you the best.

SD

[manuel_moe_g]

thanks Beany Boo and Snoring Dog!

just finished very interesting therapy session

less worried about diet, because something more fundamental came up...

using WOOP and RAIN for speaking to my inner child just like i speak to my daughter when she needs help or nurturing

when I speak to my daughter I am all about: choice, helpfulness, capability

when I speak to my inner child I am all about: being mean, being depressed, being anxious, and no separation between myself and my inner child which really messes up [choice], [helpfulness], [capability]

so fully fleshed out WOOP and RAIN

right now have this incomprehensible mess because i work with the mind mapping ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map ) website named https://www.mindmeister.com/

but i can do a quick dump right now at the end of this post

four parts of WOOP [Wish - Outcome - Obstacle - Plan] <times> four parts of RAIN [Recognize - Allow - Investigate - Nurture] could lead to SIXTEEN parts to fill in, and might need to plan for [Meanness, Depression, Anxiety]

SIXTEEN times THREE equals FORTY-EIGHT

<whew>

I am not sure my math is correct, but you get the general idea

the good news is that we can work systematically to fill in the blanks

WOOP is very much something that can work in the background of your mind once you work through the exercise even just once

so this week will be all about experimenting to see if i start talking to my inner child in the same way that I talk to my daughter when she needs help or nurturing

I will type this all up better, just wanted to get you guy's ideas first from this brain dump

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Code: Select all

talking to my inner child just like i would talk to little my daughter
	i understand the idea in session
		externalizing
			consciously aware of what is going on below the surface
	outside of session, i seem to forget it
	insight into mindsight
	different voices
		mean voice
			"get it together, dummy"
				stern
				aggressive
		depressed voice
			"it is hopeless, so lets just manage our mood"
				after a fight with my wife, i think to have fast food
		anxious voice
			"oh lets try harder, oh why is it so very hard"
				no control
		[[[ are what i speak to myself like instead of talking to my inner child like i would talk to my daughter ]]]
	WOOP and RAIN
		Wish
		Outcome
			i would really like to feel [nurtured] by talking to myself
				[[[fusion]]]
					grown-up-self and little-one-self are fused together, no separation
				nurtured
					difficult time, talk to myself
					like mother and child
						separation
							cord connecting the two is now cut
							your pain is not mine, now
							grown-up is _not_ helpless, has choices, this is where the grown-up comes from when the grown-up nurtures the child
								when I try to nurture my daughter, I naturally come from a place of [choice] and [helpfulness] and [capability]
									choice
									helpfulness
									capability
		Obstacle
			habit
			uncertainity
			the different voices
				mean voice
				depressed voice
				anxious voice
			incomplete separation [fusion] could be a problem too
				fusion is the enemy of:
					helpfulness
					capability
					choice
		Plan
			if [habit] then:
				[catch myself in the habit]
					become aware of habit
				Risk doing replacing it with something else
					choose to connect with myself
						close eyes and check in with my little self
							butterfly stance of body
								thumbs together, hands on chest
								bring little one into focus
							little self in body
							check in on him to see how he is feeling
								all his feelings are welcom
			if [uncertain] then:
				something simple, to connect
					butterfly stance of body
			if [unhelpful voice] then:
				RAIN
					mean voice
						Recognize
							hear the mean labels, especially
							recognize it is an attack
						Allow
							noticing without pushing it away or judgement
						Investigate
							feel it in temples of head
								like pressure on sides of heads
							what messages come up
								less than
						Nurture
							nurturing message to mean voice:
								thank you, mean voice, but your tone and approach are provably not helpful
							"i love you, you are just right"
								"i will not allow anything to hurt or attack you"
					depressed voice
						Recognize
							sadness
						Allow
							noticing without pushing it away or judgement
						Investigate
							sadness in the eyes
							what messages come up
								flood
									could almost drown, very scary
									hopeless
						Nurture
							nurturing message to depressed voice:
								thank you, depressed voice, i will not leave you behind
									not alone i am with you
							"i love you, i will not leave you behind"
					anxious voice
						Recognize
							sense of lack of control
						Allow
							noticing without pushing it away or judgement
						Investigate
							in pit of stomach
							what messages come up
								overwhelm
									helpless
						Nurture
							nurturing message to anxious voice:
								thank you, anxious voice, we have displayed time and time again, we got this
							"i love you, we got this, *you* got this"

[oak]

Excellent Manuel Moe.

You are poised for considerable growth.

I think you are near a breakthrough. Keep us posted.

[snoringdog]

Hello Manny,

Your approach to your inner self and to your daughter are so much the opposite!

Curious - Where do you think you learned the nurturing way that you use with your daughter? Does this come naturally to you?

SD

[manuel_moe_g]

Hello SnoringDog!

Why do I speak to my daughter and to my inner child in such different ways? Where did I learn both modes of speaking?

I speak to my inner child in very much the way my parents spoke to me when I was a little child. It is a mean voice, usually, and it feels very familiar, I am used to it.

I learned to speak to my daughter from the television show "Mr. Roger's Neighborhood" I would guess. I one thing that would make me feel the most horrible is the idea that my daughter would feel alone in the world with no one safe to share the thoughts and feelings that she needed to share.

I want to learn a new way to speak to my inner child because my therapist and I think it is key to so many of the changes that I want to enact in my life.

[Beany Boo]

The baby wants to live and love; wants their parent to live and love. Any threat to that and the baby will take it as their responsibility to manage. If the baby senses that they are a burden or a threat to their parent’s wellbeing, they will begin to sacrifice their forming self to return their parent to safety. This is the voice that forms; a blueprint. It comes back in adulthood as deep, unmediated self-blame.

It hurts

[snoringdog]

Hello Manny,

That's a wonderful thing! It made me glad to hear, and you must be a good parent!

I didn't used to *get* Mr. Rogers, and just discounted him but after learning a bit of his story and how his approach has helped countless children, I admire him.

So I hope you can turn your "inner Mr. Rogers" inwards and be kind to yourself! You are certainly making the effort.

Regards

SD

[manuel_moe_g]

I need to have a different way to speak to my inner child, a way with no anger and cruelty. I also have to have a different _intent_ when I speak to my inner child, more about listening, and less about _controlling_ him like an object.

It does no good to use kind sweet words if the _intent_ is still about merciless control.

Do you know what I mean? With this new approach I want to start with a lot of just listening to my inner child.

[oak]

Manuel Moe, good afternoon!

Let me offer you this. Is this fits, great. If not, please discard:

What if your inner child IS speaking to your daughter?

In other words, remember this old saying?: "The child is the father of the man".

I might use the term "subconscious" for "inner child"; if so, then your subconscious is very smart and immensely powerful. It survived for so long on so little (the lack in your childhood) to make it to where you are today, a success.

Your inner child, or subconscious, is vitally alive and wholly cognizant. It is adaptive and effortlessly focused on finessing survival.

This inner child is 100% aware of how you were treated as a child, and is fixing that with the next generation.

So far as I know, on the whole (remembering that we all make mistakes) you have been kind and decent to your daughter. You have been nothing like how you were treated, correct?

Your inner child/subconscious is fully in control, and fully sane. It knows exactly how you are treating your daughter, and your conscience (overlapping but distinct from your "conscious-ness") is clear.

You are kind and loving to your daughter not despite of your inner child, but because of it.

[oak]

In my post a moment ago I stated that you are "a success". Let me remind of you why I say, especially regarding food security and dentally, which is so important to me.

Right now, for the first time in all of our lives, we are surviving a global pandemic. Unfortunately many people are facing evictions, are food insecure, and are facing enormous dental difficulties.

Please don't answer the following in this forum, since it is none of our business, but ask your own heart:

1. Is there a reasonable expectation for your daughter to have safe, warm, dry housing for the next six weeks?

2. Does your daughter know where her next meal is coming from? What about for the entire weekend? Further, will it include some fresh foods, and maybe a dessert?

3. Are your daughter's gums actively bleeding? Is she grinding her teeth at night, to the extent the teeth are actively crumbling? (This is very common, in these COVID days.) Does she have access to dental care?

If you can answer all of the above in a positive manner, you are an enormous success in 2020. (If you can't, we will help you, and no one will help you more than me.)

It is a worthy question to ask if your inner child is properly communicating with your daughter.

Don't be too quick to discount the enormous effort, and wonderful privlidge, if you can sleep easily tonight, knowing that your daughter has a roof over her head and a full stomach. If so, you have much to be grateful for in 2020, and demonstrate great care and affection for your daughter.