Episode 45: Ronnie Schiller

[dare i say it]

First, thank you to Ronnie for having the courage to be so open on the show about all of the really painful things that she has been through. Once again, I am honored and inspired that there are people who are willing to do this as a way of providing comfort to others they don't even know. Also, thank you to Paul for the heads-up at the top of the show that the interview gets pretty dark in the middle. If anyone hasn't listened to it, it's not all dark--Ronnie is in a much better place now.

However, I would like to bring something up for discussion which came up at the very end of the interview. Paul mentioned that,"I've tried every other thing other than being on meds, and nothing else works." I don't want this to come across as angry. I am a little troubled and confused by that idea, but I would genuinely appreciate having a thoughtful discussion so I could better understand what to do with it.

It seems to me like a large number of things can contribute to someone overcoming depression. Maintaining a strong, nurturing relationship with a spouse or significant other helps. In general, connecting to other people helps. Finding something real in someone else and paying tribute to it helps. Healthier eating habits help. Yoga & meditation help. Mindfulness exercises help. Having a therapist, being relentlessly honest with him/her, and following his/her advice helps. Physical activity helps. Fresh air and sunshine help. Finding a healthy way to divert attention, at least for awhile, away from troubling thoughts or feelings helps. Being clean and sober, whatever that takes, helps. Practicing gratitude helps.

If someone were doing some of these things and also taking an antidepressant at the same time, it would be hard to figure out what caused what. Maybe it doesn't matter all that much as long as a person is doing better. I must say though that I'm pretty uncomfortable with giving all, or most of the credit to a pill in that situation. In the interest of full disclosure, I tried meds for 10 or 11 years with a couple of different psychiatrists and nothing really put a dent in my depression. I also am very careful never to discourage anyone from trying any safe approach, medical or otherwise, to treating depression. I feel like the best advice I can give someone is to "leave no stone unturned" in getting help. It's too important to rule anything out that might help. Just keep trying things, and then try them again, and then try other things, and just keep going until you find a few things that help. I want to hear what other people think about this.

[Pamela]

Hi DISI:

I agree with you that outlook, positive reinforcement from loved ones and working hard to renew your sense of purpose can really help with depression. I've tried medications, and so have others I know. Some people are profoundly assisted by meds, others don't get the same relief. It is true that our brains and chemistry are all unique and some folks have to try several different medications until they find one, or a combination that works for them.

For me, meds were not the answer. Therapy, unconditional love and working to renew my sense of purpose were the answer for me.

PJ

[manuel_moe_g]

I remember Paul saying on the podcast that when he went off of meds, he had multi-week bouts of constipation and recurring fantasies of dying and feeling relief at the prospect of dying. I think it is less about Paul discounting the importance of spirituality and other ways of dealing with depression, it is just that Paul is having profound physical symptoms of depression when off of meds. Actually, Paul brings up spirituality quite a bit, and through Paul's podcast is how I heard about Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth, which profoundly changed how I view myself by taking my egoic distortions into account. Also Paul has spoken about great benefits from the group therapy sessions he is a part of, and has had guests from his therapy group.

I am with Pamela and DISI (nice nickname from the acronym Dare I Say It ), meds just are not the primary solution for me. I am on a combination that keeps me stable, but I still have a lot of depression and anxiety to work through. I worry for my mother who relies primarily on her medication for depression and anxiety, and that medicine just doesn't take her to a good place, and her relationship with medication is typically finding it no longer works 18 months out, and horrifying bouts between finding another combination that works.

[manuel_moe_g]

Ronnie Schiller is awesome, and I am glad I took time to tell her so on Facebook. I greatly admire her life-force, her resilience, her sense of humor, her intelligence. Awe-inspiring!

The guests that really blew me away with their resilience were Ronnie, Kulap Vilaysack, and Lia McCord - all three are powerful women.

[wait500]

Thank you Ronnie and Paul. Ronnie for the clarity and honesty and hope. Paul for the compassion and simple listening and encouragement.

I loved when Ronnie said when she could step away and see her parents as people not identified as "Dad" or "Mom" then she could see how broken they were. I have had the same experience and it doesn't absolve my parents of their abusive natures but it explains them enough so that it can take the blame off of me. I was curious to know more about her therapy beyond the medication portion. I assume she did some kind of talk therapy to get so much clarity and so much freedom from the abuse from others. Its been helping me tremendously. I also love the statement of awareness that the mood is not the same as the person. Growing self-awareness has been the key for me to move forward and not be stymied by my own actions that I could not understand.

I could go on. So much from both Ronnie and Paul. And Paul, I was sexually abused and you and Ronnie's laughter at different times about the abuse made me smile.

Thanks.