today's comments on spirituality

[terryb]

I've always been interested in religion - I think it's fascinating to learn what people believe and why they hold to those beliefs. I've studied religion/theology in college philosophy and sociology courses, and done a lot of my own reading over the years - the history of the bible and Judeo-Christian belief, also reading on Eastern religions. My own history is that I was raised in a Roman Catholic family, tried to reimerse myself in Christianity in my 20s (I really really wanted to believe, but couldn't find my way there), and for a while believed in reincarnation and those kinds of things. I have good friends that are Jewish and one of my best friends is a fundamentalist Christian (which I have to admit I find challenging).

I find it very difficult to describe my "spiritual" beliefs to other people - I don't even like the word spiritual, but... I don't believe in a personal God, etc. blah blah blah and usually find myself saying that I believe in the kind of God that Einstein talked about. I especially like his comments about miracles - that the real miracle is not that strange and seemingly inexplicable things occur (like the parting of the red sea and stuff) but that everything is actually governed day after day after day by these complex and beautiful rules. Einstein also believed in a type of predetermination - for instance, if you are a murderer there is nothing you could do or could have done to avoid that - that just doesn't ring true for me. I think that most people believe in a scenario that allows them to see a sense of ultimate purpose or justice. I don't believe that myself - I tend to believe that purpose and justice are things we strive for, but that everything doesn't all come out even in the end. Popular spirituality today is that "everything happens for a reason" and things are "meant to be", but I actually find more comfort and truth in the concept of a certain random element. I'm no Einstein, but I have studied advanced math and physics and I don't find the concept of randomness to be alien to my "training" or my experience or life. I find some beauty in the concept. I think I can welcome a degree of randomness in life because of the mix of my education and life experience. I guess my point is it's interesting how everyone draws from so many thoughts and desires and experiences to come up with a philosophy that comforts them.

[manuel_moe_g]

I believe in the kind of God that Einstein talked about. I especially like his comments about miracles - that the real miracle is not that strange and seemingly inexplicable things occur (like the parting of the red sea and stuff) but that everything is actually governed day after day after day by these complex and beautiful rules.

Very nice. Thanks for the quote, Terry!

[next year]

I have been having lots of conversations with my 14 year old daughter about religion, Christianity, etc. We have raised our kids in the United Church of Christ. My husband and I are "recovering Catholics." We were both raised more as cultural Catholics than hard core, if you know what I mean. He is a non believer, but he attends church pretty regularly. He loves the people and the sense of community and belonging. I believe in God, but I am not a "chapter and verse" Christian. I was explaining to my daughter the other day that I may not believe that Jesus was literally the son of God. I think a more realistic view is that he is one of many prophets. I do believe that Jesus, and his teachings, changed the world, and I believe that if you live your life by his teachings that is a good way to live your life. Meaning a life of humility, charity, and forgiveness. Not intolerance, self righteousness, etc.

My daughter is preparing for her confirmation and is questioning whether she is really a "Christian". I told her she may want to check out a Unitarian church or some other religions. My view is that I make church work for me. We don't all share exactly the same beliefs but we all have similar goals. My church is a loving, accepting and supportive community and that is the most important thing to me. For me, worshiping and praying with others is a very powerful thing.

For anyone who's interested, UCC churches are more on the liberal end of things. We are pro choice, pro gay marriage, and women can be pastors.

[terryb]

I occasionally look around for a church and will check out UCC. Like your husband I would love to find that sense of community. I like your comments about Jesus - what could be wrong with living by the golden rule, right? Most major religions have the idea of compassion at their core and you can't go wrong following that.

[next year]

Here's a link to the UCC website that can help you find a church: http://www.ucc.org/

One of the things that attracted me to UCC was something I saw the first time I visited. During the service they were talking about how they had come to the decision as a church (all their churches are self governed) that any visitor could take communion as long as they understood the significance of it. As someone who was brought up Catholic, that just floored me. No big guy in Rome telling you what to believe or do? I thought that was wonderful. And the truly welcoming spirit of that - no hoops to jump through before you receive a sacrament.

Good luck in your spiritual journey.

[terryb]

Thanks for the link. That was nice of you.

[dare i say it]

I am so impressed that the level of discourse in this forum is so high that we can have an open discussion about deeply personal religious views and it doesn't degenerate into "I'm right, everyone else is wrong." This is refreshing.

[snoringdog]

Deep Mining. Thread three...