Troebia's Diary

[troebia]

Hi SD,

The "billboards" way of thinking about the ruminations sounds useful, I'm going to try it.

My tinnitus ranges from "it's there but I barely notice" to "omfg I can't think about anything else" and it's very unpredictable. I practically always put some sound in the background that masks most of it. I have a pretty severe dip around 2kHz which is gradually making understanding voices more difficult, and always have to wear ear plugs in bars and noisy environments, which makes communication even more complicated.

Trying to manage, there's no alternative...maybe in thirty years or so there will be treatments for hearing recovery. I'm coming to terms with the fact that I'll need hearing aids in a few years.

[troebia]

This thread is called "Troebia's Diary" so I feel free to post as often as I like and overshare as much as I like. Maybe it's counterproductive though...my wife is fed up now with my constant whining. She says, "It doesn't do you any good to always complain and obsess. You're scaring me! Are you going to do something stupid? Do I have to be afraid of that? Now you're giving me anxiety too!" And she's right, it isn't fair to always unload darkness on your SO.

I've gone down from 10 to 5mg vortioxetine since a couple of days and I feel less jittery. That compound has multiple effects and people talk online about how the added adrenaline speed isn't all good for reducing anxiety, since you also have more energy to be obsessed

I'm debating my therapist about the utility of drawing my bad thoughts, like torturing my monsters, as opposed to drawings about calm and positivity. I feel it's cathartic and lets off steam to go fully gore, but he says it will only reinforce the negative pathways. Many artists have used negative emotions as a motor for creativity.

[Mental Fairy]

Omg I’ve so walked that path you are on. Joe was saying the same to me once or twice during my time on that medication back in 2015. I was literally minutes away from taking the last bit of existence out of the life when Joe came home and found me. If it wasn’t for him I wouldn’t be here. The shame I have carried from that one moment still hunches my shoulders to this day. Coming off cold turkey laying in a hospital bed was insanely confronting mirrored with the best turning point of my life. That couple of weeks was the lowest I’ve ever been in my life and I look back and thank myself for getting back up.

Don’t get me wrong, we all go through it differently but your experience is so similar to my own. I really resonate with your words.

[manuel_moe_g]

I'm debating my therapist about the utility of drawing my bad thoughts, like torturing my monsters, as opposed to drawings about calm and positivity. I feel it's cathartic and lets off steam to go fully gore, but he says it will only reinforce the negative pathways.

Hmm, maybe your therapist is full of shit. I think you should trust your gut.

Please take care Troebia. Can’t wait to see your latest art. I miss it a lot

[Mental Fairy]

I agree, art art art! Let us be your audience!

[troebia]

Thank you all for your kind encouragement. After a few days of relative calm I realise how the excessive dose of vortioxetine was giving me an adrenaline energy boost and jamming the signals at the same time. I now feel like a shipwrecked person washed up onto the shore after a terrible storm. It probably has been very difficult for my wife as well.

I've reached a sort of impasse with the therapy. There has been progress but now I'm doubting the judgement of the therapist, and the benefit of continuing this dance with rational emotive behavioural therapy (REBT) since it feels so mechanical. I can't reprogram my thoughts with a few bullet points on a spreadsheet. The steps are logical, but I think it's mostly better to just reflect calmly on something with common sense. I was feeling like a cornered animal and now it's like I have access to some higher brain functions again. I still have some pangs of anxiety during the day but they're like "passing billboards".

The relaxation exercises were giving me relief while my brain was on chemical overdrive, but now they feel almost superfluous. I can sleep and nap without alprazolam, and while the tinnitus is still "there" it isn't in front of my thoughts 24/7 anymore. My body is full of defects, as most are at 58, and I feel more at peace with it. I have to get back to drawing and painting...whatever I f***ing like

[snoringdog]

Hello Troebia,

I'm glad to hear you weathered the storm!

After a few days of relative calm I realize how the excessive dose of vortioxetine was giving me an adrenaline energy boost and jamming the signals at the same time. I now feel like a shipwrecked person washed up onto the shore after a terrible storm. It probably has been very difficult for my wife as well.

This seems like a hazardous substance! I remember the Effexor reaction I had, and it wasn’t pleasant, but it nowhere near as upsetting. Have you come across anyone else having similar reactions?

I've reached a sort of impasse with the therapy. There has been progress but now I'm doubting the judgement of the therapist, and the benefit of continuing this dance with rational emotive behavioural therapy (REBT) since it feels so mechanical.

Lots of (physical) activities seem mechanical and awkward at first – playing tennis, playing pool, riding a bike, moving in certain ways. But then they become more natural and relaxed. I guess modes of thought are the same, and REBT and CBT are formulaic ways to train ourselves to approach thoughts and emotions with a little bit of recognition and distance.

I can't reprogram my thoughts with a few bullet points on a spreadsheet. The steps are logical, but I think it's mostly better to just reflect calmly on something with common sense.

The problem is, it’s sometimes hard to have the required calm and distance for this reflection, right?

I was feeling like a cornered animal and now it's like I have access to some higher brain functions again. I still have some pangs of anxiety during the day but they're like "passing billboards".

Wow, there should be strong warnings on the drug information sheet.
A related idea I picked recently is to ask myself “Do I need to think about this right now? Is it possible to think about it a little later, or maybe tomorrow?”

The relaxation exercises were giving me relief while my brain was on chemical overdrive, but now they feel almost superfluous.

Yes. I recognize this one. They may not be needed now, but there’re there if and when you need them next time. ("Box" breathing helps me in the am - 4 seconds to breath in, 4 to hold, 4 to breathe out, 4 to hold....)

I can sleep and nap without alprazolam, and while the tinnitus is still "there" it isn't in front of my thoughts 24/7 anymore. My body is full of defects, as most are at 58, and I feel more at peace with it. I have to get back to drawing and painting...whatever I f***ing like

You’re the best one to gauge when your work is cathartic and constructive, or otherwise. Not quite the same, but for me, it’s sometimes good to talk about things, but at other times, it just stirs me up..

A guest (Elyse Cizek) from a few weeks ago posted some of her methods to handle intense emotions when they strike. I've used a few since hearing her talk about it..

https://mentalpod.com/archives/6996

Regulating Intense Emotions – Elyse Cizek’s Tips To Self-Soothe.

1. Recognize that I am dysregulated. Stepping outside and observing how I’m feeling helps me to separate the feelings/fear from reality and allow myself to feel them, but without the urgency to act.

2. Talk to myself. Out loud. “Hey, I’m here. You’re ok. You’re safe.” Saying things like this, wrapping my arms around myself, kissing my shoulders, rubbing my cheeks…I can be angry, sad, overwhelmed, but I get to do it in the safe embrace of myself.

3. Ask myself what I need. Again. Out loud. Do I need a glass of water? To go outside? Something to eat? The process of cooking or preparing food, filling a glass of water, etc, is excellent in these times. I cry while I do it. I scream. I lay on the floor if I need to, then get back up.

4. Do something with my hands. Wash a dish, write something down, sweep my floors, take my dog outside, again-preparing food. All of it helps keep my brain preoccupied.

5. Call someone. Anyone. Talk to a human being. About anything.

[troebia]

Hi SD, thank you for your thoughtful reply,

Have you come across anyone else having similar reactions?

Yes, there are Facebook groups specifically for Vortioxetine "users" and most are freaking out. I now think of my GP as a grizzled sea captain speaking to me as if I were a rookie sailor about to go on my first voyage around Cape Horn: "You just hold on tight, boy, whatever you do". How right he was also to say, "this will hit you on so many levels and you'll probably need to either increase or decrease dosage". I could never have believed the difference between 10 mg and 5 mg.

I guess modes of thought are the same, and REBT and CBT are formulaic ways to train ourselves to approach thoughts and emotions with a little bit of recognition and distance.

Yes, the formulae...I've now become so tired of methodically analysing and picking apart every single issue: the tinnitus, the loneliness out in the sticks and the apathy, the failing fruit tree grove, my failed try at pottery and even my distrust of the therapist's methods in some kind of meta-loop using the very same method And no, I don't feel the necessary distance because of all the negative emotions that keep bubbling up, like shame, regret, anger, frustration.

A related idea I picked recently is to ask myself “Do I need to think about this right now? Is it possible to think about it a little later, or maybe tomorrow?”

This has become possible only now, on 5mg. I was weirdly electrified and jittery on 10mg only a week ago, driving my wife crazy in the evenings like some kind of Woody Allen on amphetamine, talking and obsessing about everything, round and round in circles. I'm glad I still had the sense to only tell her about 10% of what was flying through my mind. One night I woke up completely horrified because in a nightmare I was a paedophile in action. I mean I have never, ever had those inclinations.

("Box" breathing helps me in the am - 4 seconds to breath in, 4 to hold, 4 to breathe out, 4 to hold....)

A friend told me about this one yesterday but maybe with different numbers, and she told me it helps a lot. I'll try it.

You’re the best one to gauge when your work is cathartic and constructive, or otherwise. Not quite the same, but for me, it’s sometimes good to talk about things, but at other times, it just stirs me up..

Now my wife will see me doodling and say "Monsters, again??" just like the therapist. Whatever comes to me, I'll sweat it out on paper because I feel relief.

A guest (Elyse Cizek) from a few weeks ago posted some of her methods to handle intense emotions when they strike. I've used a few since hearing her talk about it..
https://mentalpod.com/archives/6996

Thank you, I'll check it out

[manuel_moe_g]

Howdy Troebia!

Stole this from Google AI, about “somatic therapy“

Somatic therapy is a type of therapy that uses mind-body techniques to help people release negative emotions and tension. Somatic therapists may use a variety of techniques, including:
Acupressure, Hypnosis, Breathwork, Dance, Meditation, Visualization, Massage, Grounding, Sensation awareness work.
Somatic therapists may also use talk therapy. They guide patients to focus on their physical sensations.
Some somatic practices include:
Rolfing
Body-Mind Centering
Alexander technique
Feldenkrais method
Laban movement analysis

The bad mental stuff may be best approached via mind/body path of acting as if it’s “trapped in specific places in the body”

[troebia]

The bad mental stuff may be best approached via mind/body path of acting as if it’s “trapped in specific places in the body”

Huh...why not? Though it's hard for me to imagine the possible benefits of this kind of body therapy on, let's say, objectively bad teeth and the psychological impact that has on a person. Or, while it's possible to correct some bad body posture through behaviour and way of movement, actual skeletal deformity of the spine is only treatable (if at all) via dangerous surgery. But maybe I'm missing the point of these therapies.

On the other hand, the brain can almost certainly be taught to ignore even the loss of several limbs and still feel "happy" inside the body as long as there isn't too much physical pain. For example take my neighbour who has had both legs amputated due to a mysterious nerve infection and needs to use heavy pain killers all the time. His emotional life is a continuous roller-coaster ride from the first day his wife has applied a new morphine patch (euphoria, laughter, inspired conversation) to about four days in when the effect is wearing off (fussiness, irritability, anger). He has learnt to live with the situation though, and has a wife and kids who have accepted that he "has his good days and his bad days".

Then again, some male mind-bodies will freak out because they're going bald and go to Turkey for a month to have hair from their neck transplanted onto their scalp. Some female mind-bodies will have toxins injected into their face to hide a few wrinkles and get duck lip fillers. And let's not even mention the aesthetic plastic surgery and body modifications some people will have done. Are these people then living more in their body than in their mind? Or is there some kind of threshold when you almost, almost think you're physically perfect but you just have to do a little nip and tuck to be at the very top layer among others? I can't relate as a crooked middle-aged bald man with bad teeth.

Adding:
Sorry for all that rambling. I was just out for a walk and barely made it back, with vertigo and dizziness. It may be the partial withdrawal of the vortioxetine. I had a similar feeling when I had just started taking it more than 9 weeks ago. This compound has a lot of secondary effects and as soon as I can I'll taper off.

Adding more:
Feeling better now, 2h later after crashing onto the sofa.