therapy session 01-17-2023

[manuel_moe_g]

when my wife verbally attacks me...

from the inside, my inner struggles feel like things i was born with, that i have no control over, that i can only manage

she sees my inner struggles (lack of productivity, depressed need for sleep and rest) as <1> a choice that i consciously make, <2> a choice that i consciously make maliciously against her

when my wife verbally attacks me, there is an inner core that knows the truth about myself, that knows that i am doing my best and that i am constantly improving. there is also a part of me that feels sad that there is my growth process and my potential growth that i will not be able to share with my wife

[oak]

Manuel Moe, thank you for sharing.

This is troubling to read. You deserve better.

May I ask what your therapist says about the verbal abuse?

[Mental Fairy]

Oh MM

Sorry this is happening. The verbal attack is hard to take. I try so hard to avoid it. Can i ask what you say back? Meeting in the middle is so hard, so testing and can also dissolve ourselves internally.

Partnership is so darn hard. I still don't understand mine. I tip toe a lot and avoid as much as possible at times. That is the shame thing sneaking in.

Can i ask how you both came to meet? What is it that attracts you to her and her to you?

Personal attacks sometimes happen when one or both are tired either mentally and physically. Would like to know what therapist said also if they know.

Here for you.

[manuel_moe_g]

May I ask what your therapist says about the verbal abuse?

there is a little bit of catastrophizing mixed in with my description of how my wife talks to me during her angry times during the day. my wife doesn't believe in therapy or couples therapy, so the focus is on working on myself. I report to my therapist that there is a little bit of verbal repair mixed in with the verbal abuse, as my wife's mood changes during the day

Can i ask what you say back?

i don't match abuse with abuse. there are exasperated protestations, there is some rephrasing what my wife says in terms that are not abusive, so i am still communicating with her and listening to her

What is it that attracts you to her and her to you?

we share ultimate goals and values, when it comes down to it

[oak]

Thank you for sharing about such a sensitive topic, Manuel Moe. You demonstrate considerable courage.

I’m glad the truth, your truth, is now out there: to your therapist and with us.

I do encourage you to be vigilant about escalating abuse: verbal abuse can (but not always) escalate to physical violence.

If things are thrown or destroyed, or if animals are hurt, then it has definitely escalated.

Also, men can experience the cycle of violence.

Source: my first girlfriend abused me. It is a cycle. But that cycle only goes in one direction: up, and slowly and then all at once.

We continue to stand by you, Manuel Moe.

[snoringdog]

my wife doesn't believe in therapy or couples therapy,

I've heard this kind of thing from the various guests on the podcast too. What are here reasons, if I may ask?

I don't match abuse with abuse. there are exasperated protestations, there is some rephrasing what my wife says in terms that are not abusive, so I am still communicating with her and listening to her

This is so good of you, and it's often very difficult. (I've been there).

[Mental Fairy]

joe came to one session and wasn’t able to come back. That was my fault as I felt such shame on me there in the first place.

[rivergirl]

I'm really sorry this is happening, Manny.

I'm glad you're keeping your therapist informed about the situation, and that you shared about it here, as difficult as that is.

I have a few comments, but I'm sure they're colored by my own experiences, so they may not apply to you and if so please disregard them.

About verbal abuse vs. verbal repair, unfortunately I think the abusive interactions are much more powerful and memorable. It can take a whole lot of verbal repair to undo an instance of verbal abuse. I don't know your wife's story and am not blaming her, but it isn't fair to you that you're caught in this cycle of experiencing abuse regularly, even if there are attempts to repair the damage.

I agree with Oak about watching for escalation, but from my experience of abuse in my marriage, the verbal/emotional abuse was more damaging than the physical abuse, with longer lasting effects.

Please take care of yourself, MM. You do deserve better.

[Beany Boo]

If you’re partner is not in therapy, while you are, it is possible her reactivity is a defense.

There may be a sense of falling into you or being invaded by you that she doesn’t have the skill or awareness to fend off; except through vicious attacks. When one partner is honing their self-awareness and the other is not, this is a possibility.

It’s not an excuse for bad behavior.

But maybe she needs you to push back a little; as a form of validation, for her. Call and response…

It’s entirely your choice.

(Not an expert, or au fait with your story)

[manuel_moe_g]

I feel a loyalty to my wife because she loved me back when i was unlovable