Fathers

[CBM89]

Hi everybody, been a big fan of the podcast for a while now, thought I'd come on here and join the discussion.

A bit about me - early twenties, recently out of college and a long relationship. So it's one of those times, you know? Figuring things out, trying to take care of myself (for once), learning to express my needs, how to meet them on my own...all that self-help shit that intellectually I know is useful but usually takes some time to stick.

I have a lot of unresolved stuff around my relationship with my father. He's a difficult dude. Which is to say, growing up he had big problems with rage. My parents were always arguing, so it was either full-on verbal fights or a pervasive "cold war" mentality. Never felt emotionally safe with either of them, because I think they were using me and my siblings as tools in their fight. Anyway. I've been doing some reading, and I think my father has borderline personality disorder. The world revolves around him, he's never wrong, he's manipulative, etc. But then he can turn on a dime and be charming, funny, etc.

So the problem is this - I want to express some of the feelings I have towards him, but there's always this tension of...not being able to give up on having a father. Like there's this little fuckin kid inside me that just wants him to be someone he isn't (i.e just be the "good" version that appears just when I've had enough of the bad shit). And I can't give up on that hope. It hurts. And I can't tell him, because he can't understand, and more importantly, (and I think this is healthy): I shouldn't try and get my needs met from someone who has demonstrated time and time again that he can't meet them.

But shit, it hurts. I feel like I deserve a real dad. Most of my friends have one, so I can't talk to them about it. I don't want them to feel weird or bad or guilty for having a dad that's supportive and/or home. But I can't bottle this shit up anymore. I know I just have to accept him for who he is...but it feels like everyone else (my parents) get to move on (they divorced several years ago) and I don't. And I can't talk about it to anyone either. And he never hit me, so who gives a shit...

Anyway. Thanks for reading. I'd love to talk about this topic with you people. Anyone have any experiences/thoughts on the father/son experience?

I feel selfish having written this. Fuck it (right?) .

[fifthsonata]

I just dropped in to see what's new with the MIH and found your post!

My father wasn't an angry man, but the emotional unavailability, the lack of involvement, and the feeling of abandonment - I have dealt with that and am working through it. It hit me most while I was an undergraduate. I did talk to him about it a few times and never had success - you can't force a man to change unless he wants to do so. You don't have to give up hope on a relationship, but, you've got to separate how you feel towards him as a parent and see him as a scared man. It's really invalidating to be in your 20s and still searching for Dad. It impacts your relationships with other strong male figures.



I will be coming back for you when I get home from work later - I'll dive into details.

[fifthsonata]

Okay, I'm back for you!

*rubs hands evilly* mwahahaha


Okay, anyway.


It absolutely hurts to have a father who essentially abandoned you. He may be there, but he's not actually THERE. It sort of....traps you emotionally because you never got the fundamental experience of our culture in having two parents. We're taught (and we see) from day one the value of having two parents, two perspectives, the nurturer and the protector....and if we have no point of reference, then see later on in other people what WE missed out on, it hurts so much.

I, honestly, gave up on trying to get my father involved in my life. I'm nearly 30 and it feels so degrading to be this old and have daddy issues. As an undergrad, that's when I...I guess, gave up. I am very blessed in that my mother was there to help me when I just fell apart over it - I was exploring my newfound adulthood, independence, and it was like riding a bike. My mom was there, pushing me off and was in the back just in case I fell, but my Dad just disappeared. He wasn't involved much to begin with, but here, he just left. I kept fighting to get him back, but it was such a waste of time - I could never get him back.

I guess I didn't give up - if he came back, I'd still be his friend. But, he's not a father. It doesn't sound like yours is, either. From what I read, he's too egocentric to realize the consequences of his actions on you. It hurts so much. What did you ever do to deserve a man like that? You didn't fail, you're not a bad person, and yet, you've been cheated. But that isn't your fault.


I haven't gotten over it. But, I've learned to let it go. Confrontation or no, he won't change unless he fully understands what he's done and WANTS to change.

So, see him as who he is - a man, scared of taking responsibility and failing. A man who is too selfish to give himself to his child. Your life was dependent upon his, and he failed you in that respect. He gave you food and shelter, but he didn't give you the mental and emotional development you needed. You're paying the price now. My father was a coward - he was afraid of trying and failing, so he never tried. This is failure by default, but it's not a failure he'll feel ownership over.


From what you describe it's possible he has a mental illness, but I wouldn't say borderline - what first came to my mind was depression and narcissism.


I want to reiterate this, though - it's not your fault he was never there. He made that choice and he's going to have to live with that failure. If you talk to him about it, now, which I definitely encourage you to do (that takes balls to confront him), it may alienate you further from him. But, at least you've said what you needed to say. You'll have gotten it off your chest. Get a support group behind you - maybe find a counselor or an actual support group? The rest would be up to him.

[CBM89]

Thanks for your reply! Very much appreciated. Just getting my thoughts answered/responded to made me feel less alone.

[Cinders0905]

I'd also like to mention that as hard as it is, you can't compare yourself to your friends and their relationship with their father. Everything may look sunny on the outside but what happens behind close doors rarely is. My father always looked to be the perfect father but emotionally was very detached due to depression. Luckily he loved me, and still does, but until he sought help he had a hard time expressing it. But to everyone else he was a loving caring father because he knew what to do appearance wise. I must say though, I always did know I was loved. Somehow I understood that was just how Dad was.

Everyone also thought my parents were in love when in reality they were cycling off each other. My mother has alcoholism and my dad depression. So he'd get depressed and pull away which would get her drinking which would make him more depressed etc. I can't tell you the number of times my friends said that my parents were the coolest or how awesome it was that they were still in love. Truth is though, I was just waiting for the divorce.

Don't worry that your father doesn't match up to the ideal of your friends' fathers... They probably don't either. But know that we all wish for that ideal too... and maybe we can be better parents than ours were to us.

Good luck in your journey... Sounds like you have a good jump start in figuring it out...