You can't make another person feel as you wish?

[shanarchy]

In Episode 129 with Dr. David Hirohama, there was a comment made that I have heard and read about before. But, I still have issues with it.

It goes something like this. Paul and Hirohama agreed that a person cannot make another feel as they want them to. They talk about an example that the doctor brings up. He has a couple who are patients. The guy says that his partner makes him doubt himself. The doctor then asks to get into that a little deeper. Is it really possible for someone else to make you feel as they want? No, he says, because it's really ultimately your choice how you feel.

I think I understand what they mean. But, here's my issue. A parent can and should make a child feel loved, protected, safe. It is not the child's choice if they want to feel this way or deny it. By the same token. A parent can make a child feel unsafe, ignored, despised. Does the child choose if they want to feel this? I don't think it's 100% the child's choice. But, let's say that by these examples, a child, because of their immaturity or lack of experience, has difficulty choosing how they feel.

Then, let's take adults as an example and, as I have learned in group therapy, I will talk for myself. Years ago, I used to dress up real nicely for my husband's family gatherings. His female relatives hated me for it. They even went on to say that I dressed good on purpose to make them feel bad. (Like, WTH?!) At first, I felt confused because I wore what I liked and what made me feel good about myself. I never even had them on my mind as they thought! The thing is that this went on for years. Then, there came a time when I was afraid that what I chose to wear would offend them or make them feel less than whatever. What I mean is that, with their insistence, I have changed how I feel about what I wear when I go visit them. I bet they don't even care anymore, but my mind is still affected by what they wanted me to feel.

You might say, they won. I chose to comply to their wishes, but it was always my decision. But, what was I to do?
Even the doctor had a problem feeling sort of harassed by the driver who was tailgating him on a cleared out highway! He has a doctorate in psychology, plus he practices meditation. What I mean is, he has the tools to work a feeling out. A feeling that someone else provoked him to feel.

What about all those other adults who don't have tools like these? Do they still have a choice about how they feel? Or is it that they have a choice of what they do about it?
I think it's the latter.

[manuel_moe_g]

I agree with you, shanarchy. The doctor had a good piece of wisdom, but then, taking it to the logical conclusion, drove his idea off of a cliff.

A parent can and should make a child feel loved, protected, safe. It is not the child's choice if they want to feel this way or deny it.

You are correct, this is too much to push upon the child. The doctor took a good piece of advice, and then over-extended it and drove it over a cliff.

But you still should have dressed nice! You should have dressed nice, and made those buttheads look like crap in comparison! Because everything I have read that you have posted, you are 100% Awesome!

All the best, cheers!

[shanarchy]

Thank you so much manuel!
I needed that.
Big hug for you!

[SmartCookie]

Hm. I didn't listen to that episode of the podcast so I'm just going from what you've written.

What I have learned from the cognitive behavioural therapy I've been going to, however, is that it is very taxing to try and directly act upon your feelings to feel something other than what you feel. That is why CBT emphasizes trying to change one's thinking (cognition) or actions (behaviours) to alter one's feelings.

That's not the be all and end all of it, of course; sometimes our feelings are our choice in the sense that we observe the way they are connected to patterns of cause and effect from things we are trying to defend ourselves from, or avoid. We hang on to the patterns because there is something comforting or familiar about them, in comparison to life with different rules.

so I would say, it's not a choice as to how they feel (unless they choose to feel something else and their issues inevitably spill over into some other aspect of their life). It's a choice as to what they do about it, as well as what they think. Most, but not all, people will choose thoughts that lead them into areas of personal stagnation, not growth, and because the feeling is still around, they're suffering the ill effects and forgoing opportunities to get better at using their tools.

Just me 2c.

SC