First time I expressed suicidal feelings to my mother.

[ghostmouse]

I'm not sure what age I was. My first guess is 6. In my mind it's such a big moment that it feels like it happened over and over and over. It may have happened more than once. I definitely thought the thought many times before I said it out loud, and replayed the response many times after it happened (obviously I'm still doing that).

Anyway.

CHILD ME: I wish I could go to sleep and never wake up.
MOTHER: (duly horrified) Never, ever say that.

I can't really hold this response against her. But it is a very succinct view of our relationship around my depression to this day. I try to express the pain I'm in, and it scares her so much that the conversation is cut off. At this point I'm so afraid of how horrible it is to her that I feel this way that I begin the conversation from a mean place. I don't want to hurt her, but I hate that just the idea that I'm hurting her by having this problem makes it impossible for me to talk about it. So if I do say something about it, I say something mean, and she just walks away.

[manuel_moe_g]

I am sorry. You deserve better. My anxiety and dread of living my pathetic existence make me wish I could sleep and never wake up too. Please keep chugging along. We here are cheering for you and for your greatest today and tomorrow.

[ghostmouse]

There's also this weird thing: when she was a young adult, a friend of hers committed suicide. When she talks about it, she's worked it into this very tidy narrative where he was fulfilling his destiny. She also always notes that she would never express it that way to others who were close to him, but when the story comes up it's like she has no inkling of what a challenge that narrative is to my struggle not to destroy myself. I know it's just the way she found to process and cope with this difficult event in her life, and it's not like she brings it up all the time, but it just sticks with me that she really doesn't understand that this is something I'm struggling with all the time. It's unfair of me to expect her to understand that, I guess. In a big way, of course, I'm glad that my mother doesn't know what it's like to feel this way. She just plants these weird things in my head that can really trip me up when I'm going through a rough time. Motherrrrrssss.

[irrationalpersist]

Thank you for sharing this, ghost mouse. It is so difficult to figure out how to be in an intimate relationship with a family member when your needs to be known trigger their trauma, and vice versa. Your writing has given me something to thing about. I posted these thoughts in my blog https://irrationalpersistance.wordpress ... -selfcare/.

How do we achieve new understanding with our loved ones if they are emotionally incapable of talking to us about the biggest challenges we face in life?

I don't know if this helps, but I know for a fact that there is nothing wrong with you, you have a condition and it has certain symptoms. It is only natural that you would want your mother to understand what you are dealing with on a day to day basis. That your mother cannot cope with your condition, and cannot be present for you to share your challenges does not mean that there is something wrong with you or your condition. It means your mother is also suffering, and when she dismisses you, or invalidates your experience, she is not meaning to hurt you, she is trying to protect herself.

I also understand, ghostmouse, how painful it is to not have the kind, considerate, loving attention of your mother in your time of need. It makes your condition doubly difficult to cope with. First, you are in real pain and you are suffering and you need comfort to help you maintain the strength to deal with it. Second, you feel the pain of abandonment, or perhaps even betrayal, when you turn to your mother for that comfort and support. I'm sure the abandonment and betrayal are quite possibly worse that the original condition of suffering from depression and wishing you could "go to sleep and never wake up." Third, when you see your depressed condition triggering withdrawal or stonewalling in your mother, you sense that there is something wrong with you, that you are the reason for these bad feelings coming up.

I guess I have described a trifecta of recursive pain. The original condition of your depression is painful. You seek comfort and support to deal with your condition and are re-buffed by the one person to whom you have the most intimate relational bond, your mother. You see your mother re-buff your effort to connect and feel bad for the pain you sense your sharing has caused in your mother. I imagine your depression deepens as you feel left, once again. alone to deal with your depression.

I know that I have been addressing this post to you, ghost mouse, but I should have been writing in the first person. This describes my family relationships perfectly. I don't have any answers to this conundrum, but I can say with certainty that you are not alone. I hope you can take comfort and draw support from know that.

Just for today we may not know how to handle certain situations for the rest of our lives, but also, just for today we can take one step toward learning to take care of ourselves despite conditions that perplex us.

IP

[Wren]

WOW. I can 100% relate to what you, and irrationalpersist are experiencing. (I'm going to read your blog too, irrationalpersist)

In addition to everything said above, I imagine it also feels awful because your childhood was taken away from you. Because you had such pain at an early age you weren't able to experience that carefree joy and pure living that kids are supposed to get to have. AND you weren't given the safety and protection you needed from your caregiver.

I think it was really brave of you to take that to your mother in the first place though. It's an admirable thing to bring that pain out and want help and healing. While it's terrible that you didn't receive the support you needed it' says a lot about your character that you were able to be vulnerable and seek guidance. I know that's generally what kids do anyway because that's what they're supposed to do but when things inside are so scary I know that clams a lot of kids up. I know I wasn't able to share my pain with my own mother for fear of breaking her further and thus I internalized my as well.
The fact that you're here and posting this stuff just goes to show that you still have that kid inside you that is reaching out and that is awesome! Because even though that kid is still hurting now you can find folks that will give you the support you need and the comfort you need and you can begin to parent yourself and surround yourself with people who will be there for you and share your pain.

My own mom is pretty good at forgetting and distorting the past. I mentioned above I was never really able to share my deep pain with her for fear of her spiraling into depression (as she was wont to do) but when my life completely and totally feel apart a few years back I had to move in with her again. One night we sat on the front porch and I told her all about how I had come to be such a wreck and I opened up about all the pain I felt as a kid and how she wasn't there for me. I tried to be gentle and told her I understood and forgave her because I know she struggled with her own demons and did the best she could but I guess that part didn't stick. A weeks or so I went to visit and she was feeling really down because my brother had basically verbally abused her all weekend. I let her talk about it and then she said "you know we never fought to much you and I. Although you did really lay into me that one time. I don't remember what you said but GOD, you really wrecked me."
While I know that's not the same as your mom and I'm not trying to unload all my stuff to take attention from yours I just thought this could kind of show how I can relate. It hurt so much when she said that because all my pain was forgotten and all the attention went instead to her pain.
Again, while different tactics for different moms, it's the same thing your mom did to you. She could not move beyond her own suffering to give yours weight and help lift your burden.

I imagine your suffering as a child and your need to connect and feel seen and heard and validated is something you bring with you when you work at the summer camp. While it's terrible that you didn't get that, you are able to know what it feels like and are able to provide warmth and support for the kids at your camp. THAT to me is fucking amazing. Your empathy and goodness trump your trauma. Your will to connect and celebrate the nice things and growth trumps your depression. YOU are awesome.

I sincerely hope you are feeling like sticking around ghostmouse. I know first hand how hard it is to keep that self-destructive part at bay. I'm sending you a ginormous (that's giant and enormous all in one) hug and hoping the best for you.

[ghostmouse]

Thanks for relating your experiences.

The thing is, my mom really isn't a fragile person, and she tries so hard to take care of me. She puts up with so much. The fact that I want to kill myself is just the ultimate betrayal. But she also won't let me apologize for it, because then she has to admit she's angry with me for feeling this.

[Wren]

Have either of you gone to counseling before? Would she be willing to join you for counseling together? It sounds like it's too hard to talk about in your day to day setting. Perhaps it's important enough to take that step though if she were willing?