Romantic/sexual misery

[Harlow]

Hey, all. So here's my deal.

Late 30s, straight, female. Have dated but have never had sex, been in a relationship, or been in love/loved romantically.

I struggle mightily with feelings of self-loathing and depression because of my lack of history. If I were asexual or low-sexed (?) I like to think it would hurt less. But, I feel I have a normal drive. My experience, which is currently being reflected in on-line dating, is that men who like me are gross, and the men I like never like me.

I'm very picky, but I don't think unreasonably so. But, maybe? But, the thought of lowering my standards to get "practice" as my friends suggests, fills me with rage. I feel like I'm being told I'm too ugly to have standards and should take what I should get.

I also have insecurities about my appearance which are crippling. To add on to the insecurities about being older and having no experience, I also have the fear that no one but a troll could ever love me 'cause I'm ugly. But, I'd rather spend my life alone than be with somebody I don't want just to be with somebody.

I've been meditating and seeing a therapist and while they're helping (well, meditating, anyway...), I still feel overcome with sorrow. It's a world filled with couples and love and it's hell.

I don't know how other people do it. Do more people than I realize settle? Or am I just so repulsive to men that it'll never work?

I worry that I'm doomed and will never be happy. I feel like life is a waste without companionship, at least some of the time. I just feel like deleting my profiles and giving up, frankly.

[manuel_moe_g]

Hello Harlow, welcome to the forum.

I am not fit to give advice. I am a man who was a virgin until the age of 25, and I never had a normal dating life. It was very painful and shameful. I am married now, quite happy and fulfilled, thank goodness.

You are the expert on your own situation. This is the best advice that I have managed to learn, in my pathetic experience. I had to learn to give the same compassion to others that I felt I needed for myself. It is difficult. I would start with only friendships with the opposite sex, to make the anxiety more manageable as you learn. You will need professional therapy and cognitive therapy on your own to learn to love yourself, because if you don't love yourself, you will reject someone to tries to love you.

Please take care, all the best.

[weary]

Hi Harlow.

Welcome to the forum I think that Manuel had some good suggestions. Being compassionate to yourself is a good start, and seeking out new friendships and evaluating your current ones can really help you identify what you are missing and what you need in a potential romantic partner. The person who accepts you for who you are and that you can be your authentic self around will the most beautiful and sexy person to you, and if you can be that person for someone else, you will be the most beautiful and sexy person to them.
Everyone deserves friendship, companionship, affection, and support. I do think that a lot of people settle out of desperation and loneliness, feeling that they don't deserve the type of person that is right for them, or from just trying too hard rather than just being open to the people all around them. Love is not all about sex/physical attraction/romance - it is finding the things that connect you with other people and using that as a foundation. I wish you the best of luck.

[Stina]

Hi Harlow -

I can relate to a lot of what you said, being in a similar situation myself. (Mid-30s, 1 romantic relationship eons ago). I applaud you for putting yourself out there (I haven't taken that step though everyone tells me to)... Just continue to honor yourself and what you feel is right for you. Don't lower your standards -- your body/love is yours to share so those friends can just STFU. They don't have to get nekkid with the ugly trolls. YOU DO.

[Harlow]

Thanks, all.

I have to be true to myself while still pushing myself out of my comfort zone, I guess.

[OzGuy]

For what it's worth, I can completely relate to everything you said (although I'm a guy). Is the therapy helping at all? I've been considering therapy myself.

OzGuy

[ether667]

I almost thought that a friend of mine posted this but it turns out we've never met before. Lol! It's a very similar situation she is in, 29 years old, no sex because everyone who is interested she has zero attraction to (and they don't really seem like they 'get' their own embarrassing sides) however for her she emits more of a classical beauty than a modern interpretation. I can say this confidentially having gone and supported a nude photo shoot of hers' that I helped book.

Myself, I'm 29 and divorced as of early 2012 from a girl with more skeletons then a graveyard. I've seen relationships myself, while being in a very awesome one, and still have felt jealousy and sadness. It's connected more to my own insecurities though. I foolishly believed that a relationship would save me like a high paying job would exhume my debt issues and feeling like I'm wasting my life career wise. The bottom line is working on yourself. If you haven't had sex by your own choice I wouldn't suggest just having it with anyone to get rid of the 'liability', however over the years I feel like perhaps the pressure to have it when all your friends see it as normal seems to build and build to a point where you're afraid the experience will absolutely not live up to your desired expectations. If you're there, I'm pretty sure that sex now will absolutely be a downer because it cannot fulfill your imagined self in the ideal situation doing the act.

Let me liken it to music. When you stall too long writing an album because you want it to be so perfect, you eventually can set up impossible standards for yourself. Even more so, your fans will definitely be let down because you've raised their expectations too high as well. Nothing will live up to exactly what you desire in the final product and releasing it will ease some pain, though ultimately you run the risk of feeling like you're a failure.

30s is still super young for today's standards and the fact you've realized that about yourself now and am getting help is an awesome sign that things will be changing for the better for you! You are totally not alone in this.

[My poor friend me]

There are entire message boards dedicated to support for involuntary celibacy ("incels," as they call themselves). You're not alone. It's more common than you think. Google it -- you'll be surprised. Stay away from love-shy.com, though -- it's full of misogynistic, bitter little trolls who blame their plight on women who refuse to give them the sex they feel they're rightfully owed. Many of them even have the chutzpah to call themselves "nice guys" while spewing hatred for half of humanity.

Anyway...

I'm not incel, but I feel this weird kind of comradery with them (the non-hateful ones, anyway). I honestly think I was well on my way to becoming one of them until a hot goth chick aggressively targeted my virginity -- and got it. It didn't end well, but it left me with a newfound awareness that I'm capable of being attractive to attractive members of the opposite sex. I've done okay for myself, sexually speaking, ever since.

So sometimes I'm tempted to register an account at an incel forum and tell them that there is hope. I'm living proof. But I never have and I probably never will, because what could I do? I can't tell them how to get off the incel path. I never figured it out myself. I was (somewhat traumatically) shoved off of it by a third party. I have no practical advice to offer. I just got lucky.

So there is hope, but as much as I wish I could tell you it'll all be sunshine and rainbows, older-than-average virginity is going to be a roadblock for some. Some of your prospects will have trouble getting past it. I couldn't do it -- and yes, I feel guilty about it -- when I had an attractive 30-year-old female friend who was desperate to lose her V-card. I could have helped her and had fun doing it. But I just couldn't get past the whole attractive-30-year-old-female-virgin thing. It was like, there are things that should not exist in this universe, and if encountered, they should not be tampered with.

It ended up costing us our friendship, and it was my fault. I should have fucked her brains out. It would have been the right thing to do, given the circumstances, and I wanted to do it. But I couldn't get past some stupid hang-up in my own head.

My point here is not to discourage you, but to warn you that you may encounter assholes like me. As one of those assholes, I assure you that we are the assholes. Don't let us get you down. The problem is ours, not yours. Most of us probably wouldn't admit it, but they're wrong.

[Harlow]

Hey, all. Sorry - I thought I would get notifications when people replied.

OzGuy - I don't want to discourage anyone from trying therapy, but for me, no, it hasn't ever really done much. I find meditation/yoga/talking to friends way more beneficial. However, THAT'S JUST MY EXPERIENCE. I still believe in therapy, if only theoretically.

esther667 - So, what do you suggest? I see your point about sex being idealized, but I still wanna have it, you know? I don't plan on having it just to have it - I can't stomach the thought of boinking someone I don't even really like. I don't expect it to be "good" right off. I just want to be intimate with someone. Hopefully repeatedly, so I can come. Ha. But seriously.

My poor friend me - Gah. Yeah, I've read about that before. I call it the ducking fear - that a virgin will be so grateful and muddle-headed at finally being fucked that she'll (always she...) will imprint onto the v-card-taker and never let go. It's made me consider not telling the unfortunate man who will finally do the deed. But then I worry he'll figure it out because, well, how could you not tell? But then, I've read of people not telling and their partner didn't realize.

[Harlow]

My poor friend me - Also...

Yeah, I've read about "Nice Guy" incel jerk offs, as well. After that guy shot up the women's gym, there was a great discussion thread on Gawker when it was discovered he was a Men's Rights Advocate shit head. One of the commenters wrote beautifully about how a person has to make themselves worthy of fucking.

Not in a get fake tits and lose 100 lbs kind of way, but more like, be who you would want to date. Be nice, be active, be engaged, be self-loving.

So, this year I've made it a priority to do just that. I loathe myself in many ways, and while I'm an atheist who doesn't believe in woo crap, there is a little something in attracting what you put out.