Spiralling / Obsessing - Any good ways to break the cycle?

[Moby Click]

Hi guys,

Hopefully I am posting this in the appropriate section. I have a recurring problem related to my depression that I'm not sure how to deal with. It's something that I struggle with on and off all the time but more regularly when my depression is bad. I'm probably going through the worst period of depression I've experienced since I started medication 6ish years ago. Tapering off one medication (Venlafaxine / Effexor) and starting another (Sertraline / Zoloft) has been hell, and so I'm struggling with this issue more and more recently. It's one of getting into a negative spiral and not being able to get out of it. The way I get into it is always the same and it's something like this:

-Start bickering with my wife over some very minor issue. Lastnight it was as we were trying to get our printer working to get some stuff printed off for the next day; we had one of your typical couple's arguments generated by the stress of trying to get a computer to work when you need it to.
-Bickering turns into bigger argument when I seize on any perceived criticism, blow it out of all proportion and turn it into a big argument.
-After an hour or so of shouting and swearing and the argument getting worse, I turn things in on myself, realising I've picked a fight for no reason, and start to spiral down into self-hatred, suicidal thoughts, etc. etc.
-At this point there's really no talking to me. it really upsets my wife because no matter what she tries she has no way to bring me out of the spiral. I completely push her away and eventually end up utterly detached, staring into space like a zombie, thinking horrible negative things about myself, picturing self-harm, suicide etc.
-The spiral usually only ends with me going to sleep. Lastnight I disappeared to bed at 7:00pm and woke up this morning feeling better, or at least out of the spiral. But that's no way to live; to write off the rest of a day because of my inability to sort out this problem.

After talking to my wife about it we decided we need to find some way of breaking the cycle before it ruins the rest of the day for me and everyone around. I also feel like recently the problem is getting worse; I'm worried I might get violent or hurt myself because I get so worked up. So, that was a long-winded way of asking; does any anyone have a similar problem or any ideas about ways to break this cycle? The only thing my wife and I have come up with is for me to sleep for an hour or so to sort of "reset" myself. The problem is that I am incredibly difficult to deal with when I get like this and will fight against any suggestion to do anything positive that might help. At a bit of a loss and would really appreciate any input.

[pizzicato]

Hi Moby,

I don't have any experience with medication, so I don't know what a transition of meds is like, and I know nothing of relationships so I'm not speaking to that, but I can speak a little to the spiraling--I have similar want of harming myself/horrific or excessive self-defeating thoughts when the stress gets bad. First in trying to avoid the spiral I try to draw humor into a tense situation which often sparks the negative thinking, especially when it's a monotonous day to day type of thing, just to keep it light.

When I'm in the midst of wanting to hurt myself and repetitive bad thinking, I know it's an energy that needs to get out of my body. So I try to switch it up and do some kind of activity that will get the energy out (I really had to fight myself to do something but now it's just something I know is good for me and like maintenance). So running or working out, playing an instrument or writing, just scribbling or doing the dishes.. cleaning something. Anything. Something to get you out of your mind and into your body. Exercise has helped me a lot in general and I think it helps use up energy that would instead sit unused and grow the mold of self-hate (to be all poetic about it, but I don't know another way to explain it)

Again I don't know about relationship dynamics really, but I wonder if you talk with your wife when you realize that the argument wasn't worth the bother.

[Arkay]

I also live with this struggle and I have also been through the Hell of tapering off Venlafaxine. I will try to address both in turn.

First: I believe that spiraling/obessing is a symptom of depression and anxiety occurring together (or "comorbidly" as it is known medically). I have been working with a therapist using Dialectical Behavioral Therapy to try to tame this. I feel it is more productive than traditional talk therapy because in the past, that has only given me opportunity to dwell in and tighten my hate spiral more. DBT gets to the root of highly conflicting emotions and helps you regulate them. I am trying to break the cycle in this way, but I am still in the early stages of it myself. When I am in a highly agitated state and feel the grip of a nasty spiral, I will have a "reset" nap like you do or sometimes go for a little walk. The single most effective thing for me has been guided meditation and ASMR videos on Youtube. I just plug in and follow the meditation. I will even just listen to them while I sit at my desk at work if I am having a particularly rough day. I know that these things can be really cheesy and if you are not familiar with ASMR it seems *really* weird, but they have been a lifesaver for me over the past year or so. Exercise is a solid, proven solution, but can be difficult to accomplish if you are paralyzed with depression (which has been the case for me). Another easy way (ie, minimal exertion) to get back into your own body is to take a hot bath or shower with something that smells really good - I like eucalyptus epsom salts or lavendar oil. This brings me back into myself and calms any rash urge to do something drastic.

Your wife can support you by just acknowledging your frustration and not get pulled into an argument - if she doesn't recognize this pattern by now, you can explain it to her in a calm moment. Recognizing this yourself can also help you re-direct your energy away from her more often in the future.

Second: Tapering off Effexor/Venlafaxine is a heroic undertaking. It turns out that even if you taper off as gradually as humanly possible, once it is out of your system completely, your body revolts (as you are probably already experiencing). I was blessed enough to not suffer any brain zaps, but I had nausea, insomnia, and violently swinging emotions for about three weeks. There were times I really thought I was going crazy. I have now been med-free for about seven months, and I am still evaluating my own needs for meds in the future, which is a very likely possibility. Just hang in there though - the worst of it lasts about 3-5 weeks, then gets better. There is a thread in the forum somewhere about it specifically but I don't remember offhand exactly where it is.

I wish you the best. Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with. I know what you are going through, and it is really hard. Hugs!

[Moby Click]

Thanks so much for these replies. It's given me a lift just to know people are struggling / have struggled with the same thing and care enough to chip in with their thoughts. There are a few things I am going to look into and try, especially the meditation, ASMR and the idea of getting the energy out of myself in a positive way. I have actually been digging up a bunch of tree stumps in the back garden and it's great to have something so physical to do. Arkay, is DBT similar to or the same as CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy)? I got a couple of books out of the library that use this approach and am trying to work my way through them.

The good news is that my Venlafaxine withdrawal symptoms seem to be gone. It was a horrendous ordeal, to be honest, and a lot of the time I wished I hadn't bothered switching medications at all. Now I'm on the other side of it, I'm glad I made the change as it's a good time for me to get things sorted out. I am up to a 50mg dose of Sertraline now and may just be starting to feel the effects after about 10 days on it. It's hard to tell if it's the meds or just a general lift in my mood, but things are more positive now than they were, and that's good. Fingers crossed the meds are working and will keep me on an even keel. What I really need is a few weeks of stability; get a good pattern going again.

Thanks again for your help, folks. xxx

[SlackBabbath]

Good to hear. Changing meds is brutal. Dont forget to cut yourself some slack.

[Sienna]

Wow, that sounds just awful, I mean the changing of the meds! See that makes me wonder if it's worth it at all to take them in the first place, for me anyways. I took one tablet once and I was sick for four days and couldn't sleep at all the first night. I'll stick to my yoga, favourite foods, and hot baths to keep me half-assed sane.

It would be nice though to be a little social. I got an email yesterday from an out of town friend, whom I haven't seen in a couple of years, asking me out for dinner. I wanted to answer with a real nasty message of how I'd rather sit in my bed, in the dark, listening to podcasts than see her. I didn't though, I just ignored her invitation. I probably could have had a lot of fun, but no, I'm too angry, resentful and hurt to giver her the time of day.But in the end, it's me that loses out...again.

[marcusfreestone]

I took effexor and the side-effects were awful, as with most things I've taken, although I've now been on Cymbalta for 18 months and had no effects at all and much benefit. I get stuck in these cycles with my girlfriend, who is bi-polar. It happens both ways round: one of us says a perfectly harmless sentence, the others' negative brain ruminates on it, amplifies and catastrophises it, takes offence, and before you know it one or both of us are shouting, crying, storming out of the room and we both feel like shit. What we've been doing lately is discussing these episodes a few days later when we're both feeling stable. Analysing them 'in the cold light of day' has proved really useful for me and I feel much calmer now and less inclined to over react if she says/does something that winds me up. Also, it takes stress chemicals 30 minutes to leave your system, so have a break of longer than that from each other after an argument, or the chemicals will shoot back up again immediately. Sleep is the best thing to reset yourself and gain some perspective.